2024 Presidential Election Thread

[Jeff Lebowski]

My assumption that most feel don't know a trans person usually seems to be true when I ask the question to others.

I don't know how you can say "clearly wrong." You think most people feel like they know a trans person?

20% of Gen Z identify as not straight. ~ 1 in 20 identify as trans.

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-...aight-n1270003

I encounter trans kids in provo fairly regularly. Kids in our neighborhood say it is quite common at the local middle school and HS and even report feeling peer pressure to identify as something non-straight. This is in a very conservative city.

Your continued insistence that it isn't a thing seems like gaslighting.

[Shaka]

I've known several trans people over the years. Two of these were close family friends and one was a former classmate. All three had fully transitioned. Two of these three are dead by suicide. The third's life is screwed up in a major way. This of course falls right right in line with studies regarding post-transition suicide rates.

[Northwestcoug]

If we're going to argue by anecdote, I know three med students who have transitioned. 2 of them made it through med school and have started residency. One dropped out of med school.
To say that transitioning people have mental health problems, growing up in a society that enforces gender rigidity, is almost a non-sequitur. Of course these people are going to struggle. To imply that transitioning is the default reason for mental health problems and suicide is ignorant of the complexities of their lives.

[frank ryan]

20% of Gen Z identify as not straight. ~ 1 in 20 identify as trans.

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-...aight-n1270003

I encounter trans kids in provo fairly regularly. Kids in our neighborhood say it is quite common at the local middle school and HS and even report feeling peer pressure to identify as something non-straight. This is in a very conservative city.

Your continued insistence that it isn't a thing seems like gaslighting.

That's a pretty lame accusation. I disagree with you. That isn't gaslighting.

[beefytee]

I don’t think that the prevalence of it matters much. My question is is it an important to the presidential campaign? Should the President be setting policy for this and can he create policy that will benefit society.

It seems to me that the culture wars cause more collateral damage than help a side improve the moral state of the country.

[tooblue]

If we're going to argue by anecdote, I know three med students who have transitioned. 2 of them made it through med school and have started residency. One dropped out of med school.
To say that transitioning people have mental health problems, growing up in a society that enforces gender rigidity, is almost a non-sequitur. Of course these people are going to struggle. To imply that transitioning is the default reason for mental health problems and suicide is ignorant of the complexities of their lives.

Blaming "enforced societal gender rigidity" is also almost a non-sequitur. It places undue influence on environment. To imply that mental health challenges are due primarily to causal cultural forces beyond a persons control is ignorant of the complexities of individuals mental health challenges.

[Pelado]

It seems like most of my daughters' friends are nonbinary, whatever the hell that means.

[tooblue]

It seems like most of my daughters' friends are nonbinary, whatever the hell that means.

I interact with homosexual, non binary and trans individuals regularly. During the school year my interactions are daily and varied. To identify as non binary is popular and even fashionable among my students. There is considerable cultural influence to identify as something other than heterosexual. I am witness to the power of this influence on a day to day basis. This has been a part of my lived personal and professional experience for more than 20 years. This influence permeates nearly every discussion, and is present in many of my interactions in a myriad of circumstances.

It can be suggested that my evidence of this influence is anecdotal, however it cannot be dismissed as unreliable. My experience with gay, non binary and trans individuals is a part of my daily life. Even as a youth football coach. The manager of my football team is married to her partner and they have two children one of which is a very good defensive end. She was raised catholic. She came to church to hear me speak a few weeks ago. If I choose to coach again this fall, I have asked her to be a coach on my staff (she is a hockey coach, and has picked up football quickly). There are two other sets of parents of youth on my team who are LGBTQ.

The binary nature of this entire discussion is what I find strange and out of the ordinary.

[Northwestcoug]

Blaming "enforced societal gender rigidity" is also almost a non-sequitur. It places undue influence on environment. To imply that mental health challenges are due primarily to causal cultural forces beyond a persons control is ignorant of the complexities of individuals mental health challenges.

Clever turn of phrase. Yet it seems like you’re still blaming a person’s own mental health for their identity decisions?

[RC Vikings]

I've known several trans people over the years. Two of these were close family friends and one was a former classmate. All three had fully transitioned. Two of these three are dead by suicide. The third's life is screwed up in a major way. This of course falls right right in line with studies regarding post-transition suicide rates.

We have a guy in our office who has 15 year old twin boys, one is trans and his whole focus is how to keep his child from suicide one day. He is divorced and the ex is all in on the change and he's been fighting to hold off until later. It's been a mess.

[tooblue]

Clever turn of phrase. Yet it seems like you’re still blaming a person’s own mental health for their identity decisions?

The point is I am not placing blame. A persons own mental health is principally due to identity decisions as affected by gender dysphoria:

https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-...nder-dysphoria

"The term “transgender” refers to a person whose sex assigned at birth (i.e. the sex assigned at birth, usually based on external genitalia) does not align their gender identity (i.e., one’s psychological sense of their gender). Some people who are transgender will experience “gender dysphoria,” which refers to psychological distress that results from an incongruence between one’s sex assigned at birth and one’s gender identity. Though gender dysphoria often begins in childhood, some people may not experience it until after puberty or much later."

"... Stigmatization, discrimination and victimization" can create "complications", but are not considered the cause of the psychological distress.

[Maximus]

So if we go back to the primary, we all know desantis is toast,

who has a chance of being the non trump candidate? haley, pence, nah.

is scott the only one?

[Moliere]

That's a pretty lame accusation. I disagree with you. That isn't gaslighting.

It is gaslighting and your original assumption was clearly wrong.

[Shaka]

We have a guy in our office who has 15 year old twin boys, one is trans and his whole focus is how to keep his child from suicide one day. He is divorced and the ex is all in on the change and he's been fighting to hold off until later. It's been a mess.

This is only my opinion but I think it's a travesty that a portion of society is trying to legitimize the trans movement rather than treating the mental health issues that drive it. Again, only my opinion, but transitioning rarely solves the underlying issues and these poor people come out the other side just as troubled as they were before and commit suicide at about the same rate. Oftentimes this road not only sews destruction in the trans person but also in the lives of their loved ones. It's a sad deal and I feel for anyone involved.

[Shaka]

So if we go back to the primary, we all know desantis is toast,

who has a chance of being the non trump candidate? haley, pence, nah.

is scott the only one?

The campaign has barely started. DeSantis isn't toast. Anything can happen when the debates start. Trump has some glaring vulnerabilities that will be exploited by the other candidates. DeSantis is smart and he's cunning. He will ultimately present a challenge.