The PAC 10 expansion groundswell

[Hot Lunch]

Kyle Whittingham is the best coach in the Pac 12. I say that not out of hatred or spite--as you do in saying there are unnamed assistant coaches better than Kyle--but simply on the basis of his record, his achievements, his W/L record, his season finishes, etc. Kyle has a solid empirical case for being the best coach in the Pac 12.

So choke on that. Or, go on and try to make new delusions, now that your old ones are shattered. Try to turn Laramie into Disneyland. I have no doubt BYU fans can do that. It's what they do best.

As much as I like Kyle and as good of coach that I think he is, it is hard to compare what he has done in the MWC to what coaches have done in better conferences. His W/L record is helped by playing pathetic competition 7 or 8 games a year. There are many reasons why Gary Patterson, Mike Petterson, Kyle Whittingham and Bronco Mendanhall have the top winning percentage over the past 5 years and the 7 to 8 dogs on their schedule each year is a big part of it.

I personally think that Kyle is in the top tier of coaches in the Pac-10 and his resume is a great one. Two coaches that come to the top of my head as being more proven than Kyle are Monte Kiffen and Mike Riley. Now Kiffen's resume is built off of being a successful D Coordinator in the NFL and not as a head coach but he has been on top at the top level of football. Not many can say that. Also, what Mike Riley has done in Corvallis is pretty damn impressive.

[SeattleUte]

As much as I like Kyle and as good of coach that I think he is, it is hard to compare what he has done in the MWC to what coaches have done in better conferences. His W/L record is helped by playing pathetic competition 7 or 8 games a year. There are many reasons why Gary Patterson, Mike Petterson, Kyle Whittingham and Bronco Mendanhall have the top winning percentage over the past 5 years and the 7 to 8 dogs on their schedule each year is a big part of it.

I personally think that Kyle is in the top tier of coaches in the Pac-10 and his resume is a great one. Two coaches that come to the top of my head as being more proven than Kyle are Monte Kiffen and Mike Riley. Now Kiffen's resume is built off of being a successful D Coordinator in the NFL and not as a head coach but he has been on top at the top level of football. Not many can say that. Also, what Mike Riley has done in Corvallis is pretty damn impressive.

I appreciate your good faith response. Dennis Erickson did a lot more than Riley. You don't have to go much further than that debacle in Corvalis against Oregon in 2008 that deprived Oregon State of the Rose Bowl to dismiss Riley as as serious contender to Kyle. Good lord, that still pisses me off; what an inexcusable lack of preparation for a huge game for the school's history that was.

As for Kiffin, 16-17 as a college head coach tells the tale. See also MRD's post in the other thread.

[Hot Lunch]

I appreciate your good faith response. Dennis Erickson did a lot more than Riley. You don't have to go much further than that debacle in Corvalis against Oregon in 2008 that deprived Oregon State of the Rose Bowl to dismiss Riley as as serious contender to Kyle. Good lord, that still pisses me off; what an inexcusable lack of preparation for a huge game for the school's history that was.

As for Kiffin, 16-17 as a college head coach tells the tale. See also MRD's post in the other thread.

Erickson had one good year in Corvalis. The other 3 he finished 5th,7th and tied for 4th. Like I said, I wouldn't compare Kyle's winning percentage in the MWC to Riley's winning percentage in the Pac-10. It is apples to oranges.

[SeattleUte]

Erickson had one good year in Corvalis. The other 3 he finished 5th,7th and tied for 4th. Like I said, I wouldn't compare Kyle's winning percentage in the MWC to Riley's winning percentage in the Pac-10. It is apples to oranges.

It was a downright miraculous year for Oregon State. The seasons that are remembered and build a following and a tradition are the ones like Erickson's one big year.

[Hot Lunch]

It was a downright miraculous year for Oregon State. The seasons that are remembered and build a following and a tradition are the ones like Erickson's one big year.

Thats great. He followed it up with a 5-6 year.

EDIT: If Erickson is that good, why is ASU so bad now? Back to back losing seasons.

[PaloAltoCougar]

Try to turn Laramie into Disneyland. I have no doubt BYU fans can do that. It's what they do best.

Actually, we do a great many things very well, including running our rival's university and football program.

[SeattleUte]

Actually, we do a great many things very well, including running our rival's university and football program.

qua fans?

[Color Me Badd Fan]

Except that Utah had that many in 2006 in the Rose Bowl.

Utah v. UCLA drew 59k in 2006. BYU v. UCLA drew 72k a year later.

It also could have been a lot more back in 1993, I was providing a conservative estimate.

[Solon]

I have not said anything inconsistent with this. I've found all the anger about something that was a natural consequence of volitional choices by BYU alumni and the institution alike somewhat surprising.

What I'm surprised that everybody is dancing around but nobody is really saying is, BYU wasn't in the PAC discussion due to issues as a university. Obviously certain things about the culture are difficult to sell, but the byu is under censure from the AAUP for lack of academic freedom. Sure, it stems from affiliation with the LDS church, but look at the list:

http://www.aaup.org/AAUP/about/censuredadmins/

See any "BCS" schools on that list?

The whole "it's just an anti-religious thing" reasoning for BYU's exclusion doesn't hold water. Baylor isn't on that list; nor is Notre Dame or Boston College.

It's not an anti-LDS thing. It's about the way other universities perceive BYU's administration. If BYU wants to play big-time conference sports, it needs to show it's willing to embrace the ideals of a big-time university.

As Monson points out, maybe the byu isn't ready to give up some of its ideals in order to adopt others. That's okay. Commendable, even. But that's a choice the byu has to make.

[SeattleUte]

What I'm surprised that everybody is dancing around but nobody is really saying is, BYU wasn't in the PAC discussion due to issues as a university. Obviously certain things about the culture are difficult to sell, but the byu is under censure from the AAUP for lack of academic freedom. Sure, it stems from affiliation with the LDS church, but look at the list:

http://www.aaup.org/AAUP/about/censuredadmins/

See any "BCS" schools on that list?

The whole "it's just an anti-religious thing" reasoning for BYU's exclusion doesn't hold water. Baylor isn't on that list; nor is Notre Dame or Boston College.

It's not an anti-LDS thing. It's about the way other universities perceive BYU's administration. If BYU wants to play big-time conference sports, it needs to show it's willing to embrace the ideals of a big-time university.

As Monson points out, maybe the byu isn't ready to give up some of its ideals in order to adopt others. That's okay. Commendable, even. But that's a choice the byu has to make.

(Fixed it for you.)

The thing that I find ironic is of all people BYU fans ought to understand an honor code. That's what we're talking about here. An honor code; just that. Any rationale supporting Harvy Unga's expulsion from BYU supports the Pac 10's decision not to admit BYU. But I've seen Michael Loyd and Harvey Unga show more maturity in accepting the consequences of their choices than Doug Robinson and some other BYU fans. That Robinson would reduce this to the idiot's formula of "liberal West Coast schools" not wanting "conservative BYU" says everything about why most newspapers are going out of business. Some of us have always known that BYU has a bigger fan base, more years of robust football, but that BYU would certainly never be invited to the Pac 10and Utah probably eventually would.

Unfortunately, I fear that this very thing is keeping BYU out of the Big 12 too. Yes, Doug, MOST Universities are more liberal than BYU; they are in many ways about progressive values.

[All-American]

BYU culture.

[BlueHair]

As much as I like Kyle and as good of coach that I think he is, it is hard to compare what he has done in the MWC to what coaches have done in better conferences. His W/L record is helped by playing pathetic competition 7 or 8 games a year. There are many reasons why Gary Patterson, Mike Petterson, Kyle Whittingham and Bronco Mendanhall have the top winning percentage over the past 5 years and the 7 to 8 dogs on their schedule each year is a big part of it.

I personally think that Kyle is in the top tier of coaches in the Pac-10 and his resume is a great one. Two coaches that come to the top of my head as being more proven than Kyle are Monte Kiffen and Mike Riley. Now Kiffen's resume is built off of being a successful D Coordinator in the NFL and not as a head coach but he has been on top at the top level of football. Not many can say that. Also, what Mike Riley has done in Corvallis is pretty damn impressive.

I'm not too impressed with Riley. I'll admit I've only watched two full games that he's coached. Against Utah he decided to go for two point conversions several times and failed on all of them. This allowed Utah to go on a last minute drive and convert a two point conversion to tie the game up. Had he opted to kick even one of them, they win the game. The other game was the Vegas Bowl last year and he made no adjustments. BYU kicked their asses.

[SeattleUte]

BYU coutoure.

Fixed it for you.

http://famineforfashion.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/christian-dior-haute-couture-08-5.jpg

[Portland Ute]

Utah v. UCLA drew 59k in 2006. BYU v. UCLA drew 72k a year later.

It also could have been a lot more back in 1993, I was providing a conservative estimate.

Those numbers say NOTHING of how many fans Utah or BYU had.

[myboynoah]

Those numbers say NOTHING of how many fans Utah or BYU had.

So, what are the possibilities?