2024 Presidential Election Thread

[Eddie]

Tim Scott goes on "The View" after Joy Behar says that he "doesn't get it" as far as knowing what it's like to be a Black person in American and face racism - which as a White Woman she clearly understands better than him. And Behar is a no-show for the show. What a wingnut.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/sen-...ry?id=99845213

I really liked his response - insisting that minority children can't make it due to systemic racism just sucks their hope. America isn't perfect - we haven't arrived. But we are not in the same place we were 20, 30, or 40 years ago. There's been a lot of progress to build on - and we should celebrate that progress and what it represents in continuing to build instead of insisting that there is no hope for the future.

[frank ryan]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

Pardon the quibble, but it seems to me that in the video he is saying he will fight the idealogy, not forcibly surpress it. As I have observed politics over the past few decades, it seems to me that a politician saying they will fight for something almost always means to use the political process to achieve one's political goals. I believe its use here is more akin to the word debate with the opposition rather than forcible suppression of it. In the admittedly conservative circles I find myself, one of the biggest complaints about "wokeism" that I hear is how those of a woke mindset somewhat forcibly suppress any dissent against their point of view.

Maybe DeSantis is speaking from a dictatorial point of view. Maybe he isn't. At this point, for me he is not Trump and he is not Biden. I have not, nor will I ever pull the lever for either of those two and hope to have the choice of someone else besides the crazies in the fringe parties this next go round.

He has shown cruelty and dishonesty. He has tried to bend a major corporation to obeying his social agenda, and has been very aggressive about. He is curtailing speech and curriculum in in public education. He has punished public officials who disagree with him while dutiful during their jobs, including a health department person who would fudge numbers for his benefit. His scapegoating of migrants should alarm any decent person as to his moral core.

The man plans on pardoning convicted seditionists who tried to overthrow our republic. That should disqualify him for running to be dog catcher

If he seems like a decidedly better option than disappointingly mediocre Biden, I'd encourage you to do some more intentional investigation and hold off on assigning my opinions as liberal histrionics. I have bias; but I'm informed.

[Copelius]

So I decided to do some "intentional investigation", but only have time for one issue. African-American studies.

The history of African Americans, including the history of African peoples before the political conflicts that led to the development of slavery, the passage to America, the enslavement experience, abolition, and the history and contributions of Americans of the African diaspora to society. Students shall develop an understanding of the ramifications of prejudice, racism, and stereotyping on individual freedoms, and examine what it means to be a responsible and respectful person, for the purpose of encouraging tolerance of diversity in a pluralistic society and for nurturing and protecting democratic values and institutions. Instruction shall include the roles and contributions of individuals from all walks of life and their endeavors to learn and thrive throughout history as artists, scientists, educators, businesspeople, influential thinkers, members of the faith community, and political and governmental leaders and the courageous steps they took to fulfill the promise of democracy and unite the nation. Instructional materials shall include the vital contributions of African Americans to build and strengthen American society and celebrate the inspirational stories of African Americans who prospered, even in the most difficult circumstances. Instructional personnel may facilitate discussions and use curricula to address, in an age-appropriate manner, how the individual freedoms of persons have been infringed by slavery, racial oppression, racial segregation, and racial discrimination, as well as topics relating to the enactment and enforcement of laws resulting in racial oppression, racial segregation, and racial discrimination and how recognition of these freedoms has overturned these unjust laws. However, classroom instruction and curriculum may not be used to indoctrinate or persuade students to a particular point of view inconsistent with the principles enumerated in subsection (3) or the state academic standards. The department shall prepare and offer standards and curriculum for the instruction required by this paragraph and may seek input from the Commissioner of Education’s African American History Task Force.

Please let me know what I am missing in this that is being supressed. Here is the referred to subsection (3).

The Legislature acknowledges the fundamental truth that all persons are equal before the law and have inalienable rights. Accordingly, instruction and supporting materials on the topics enumerated in this section must be consistent with the following principles of individual freedom:
(a) No person is inherently racist, sexist, or oppressive, whether consciously or unconsciously, solely by virtue of his or her race or sex.
(b) No race is inherently superior to another race.
(c) No person should be discriminated against or receive adverse treatment solely or partly on the basis of race, color, national origin, religion, disability, or sex.
(d) Meritocracy or traits such as a hard work ethic are not racist but fundamental to the right to pursue happiness and be rewarded for industry.
(e) A person, by virtue of his or her race or sex, does not bear responsibility for actions committed in the past by other members of the same race or sex.
(f) A person should not be instructed that he or she must feel guilt, anguish, or other forms of psychological distress for actions, in which he or she played no part, committed in the past by other members of the same race or sex.

Instructional personnel may facilitate discussions and use curricula to address, in an age-appropriate manner, how the freedoms of persons have been infringed by sexism, slavery, racial oppression, racial segregation, and racial discrimination, including topics relating to the enactment and enforcement of laws resulting in sexism, racial oppression, racial segregation, and racial discrimination, including how recognition of these freedoms have overturned these unjust laws. However, classroom instruction and curriculum may not be used to indoctrinate or persuade students to a particular point of view inconsistent with the principles of this subsection or state academic standards.

I must be a wildly extreme right wing zealot, because I find nothing in these quoted statutes that gives me pause. I don't mind being the token conservative like they have on the View. (Do they still have one?) Which one of you is Behar?

Thanks all for being so tolerant of my initial statement that I didn't see any reason for Biden to be president over DeSantis. I will continue to investigate, but as you see I do look for original sources and not brethless news reports from either side. Right now I prefer Scott or Haley to DeSantis, but there is a long time to go before I have to make a choice and my choice won't matter because Utah will go red regardless, although I could see it going 3rd party or maybe even blue if Trump is the nominee. Trump and Biden are the only ones I have 100% eliminated.

I lied, let's look at don't say gay while we are at it.

Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards.

[Non Sequitur]

So I decided to do some "intentional investigation", but only have time for one issue. African-American studies.



Please let me know what I am missing in this that is being supressed. Here is the referred to subsection (3).



I must be a wildly extreme right wing zealot, because I find nothing in these quoted statutes that gives me pause. I don't mind being the token conservative like they have on the View. (Do they still have one?) Which one of you is Behar?

Thanks all for being so tolerant of my initial statement that I didn't see any reason for Biden to be president over DeSantis. I will continue to investigate, but as you see I do look for original sources and not brethless news reports from either side. Right now I prefer Scott or Haley to DeSantis, but there is a long time to go before I have to make a choice and my choice won't matter because Utah will go red regardless, although I could see it going 3rd party or maybe even blue if Trump is the nominee. Trump and Biden are the only ones I have 100% eliminated.

I lied, let's look at don't say gay while we are at it.

In your intentional investigation of African American studies in Florida, did you bother to look at the text books and library books that have been banned based on broad interpretations of what you quoted above? Instead of limiting your investigation to the reading of brochures, why don't you take a look at actual policies that are being enacted in Florida?

By the way, the Don't Say Gay bill was extended to include students through grade 12. You might want to also investigate that.

[old_gregg]

So I decided to do some "intentional investigation", but only have time for one issue. African-American studies.



Please let me know what I am missing in this that is being supressed. Here is the referred to subsection (3).



I must be a wildly extreme right wing zealot, because I find nothing in these quoted statutes that gives me pause. I don't mind being the token conservative like they have on the View. (Do they still have one?) Which one of you is Behar?

Thanks all for being so tolerant of my initial statement that I didn't see any reason for Biden to be president over DeSantis. I will continue to investigate, but as you see I do look for original sources and not brethless news reports from either side. Right now I prefer Scott or Haley to DeSantis, but there is a long time to go before I have to make a choice and my choice won't matter because Utah will go red regardless, although I could see it going 3rd party or maybe even blue if Trump is the nominee. Trump and Biden are the only ones I have 100% eliminated.

I lied, let's look at don't say gay while we are at it.

your question is why a curriculum statement specifically designed to comply with state legislated curriculum requirements complies with state legislated curriculum requirements? hmm

[Eddie]

So I decided to do some "intentional investigation", but only have time for one issue. African-American studies.



Please let me know what I am missing in this that is being supressed. Here is the referred to subsection (3).



I must be a wildly extreme right wing zealot, because I find nothing in these quoted statutes that gives me pause. I don't mind being the token conservative like they have on the View. (Do they still have one?) Which one of you is Behar?

Thanks all for being so tolerant of my initial statement that I didn't see any reason for Biden to be president over DeSantis. I will continue to investigate, but as you see I do look for original sources and not brethless news reports from either side. Right now I prefer Scott or Haley to DeSantis, but there is a long time to go before I have to make a choice and my choice won't matter because Utah will go red regardless, although I could see it going 3rd party or maybe even blue if Trump is the nominee. Trump and Biden are the only ones I have 100% eliminated.

I lied, let's look at don't say gay while we are at it.

I have a hard time disagreeing with any of that, Copelius. I remember having a hard conversation with my youngest about her feeling guilty for being White. It sure seems like there is a very fine line between "not doing anything wrong" and "not doing enough to fight against past wrongs" for some people. I'm not into "White pride" by any means, but I am totally against a child feeling shame for being who they are. And I own this for youth who identify as LGBTQ - who I also believe should not be made to feel shame for being who they are.

[Copelius]

In your intentional investigation of African American studies in Florida, did you bother to look at the text books and library books that have been banned based on broad interpretations of what you quoted above? Instead of limiting your investigation to the reading of brochures, why don't you take a look at actual policies that are being enacted in Florida?

By the way, the Don't Say Gay bill was extended to include students through grade 12. You might want to also investigate that.

What I quoted were the actual current statutes. You know, the whole plain language thing. I'm not sure how you think that translates to a brochure.

[old_gregg]

What I quoted were the actual current statutes. You know, the whole plain language thing. I'm not sure how you think that translates to a brochure.

you quoted a curated syllabus (that is effectively a brochure) designed to comply with the law and asked how it doesn't comply with the law, as evidence that you don't have a problem with the law.

[Copelius]

you quoted a curated syllabus (that is effectively a brochure) designed to comply with the law and asked how it doesn't comply with the law, as evidence that you don't have a problem with the law.

The complaint was:

He has enacted laws limiting what children can learn about black history. He passed the "Don't say gay" law.

Therefore my investigation was into those laws that were enacted and passed. They do not amount to the fascism originally alleged. My original purpose in commenting was not to defend DeSantis, but to point out, as was stated at one time about another word, that fascism, as being used, appeared to not mean what it was thought to mean. But then again, I'm just a simple country boy stuck in the city.

[tooblue]

So I decided to do some "intentional investigation", but only have time for one issue. African-American studies.



Please let me know what I am missing in this that is being supressed. Here is the referred to subsection (3).



I must be a wildly extreme right wing zealot, because I find nothing in these quoted statutes that gives me pause. I don't mind being the token conservative like they have on the View. (Do they still have one?) Which one of you is Behar?

Thanks all for being so tolerant of my initial statement that I didn't see any reason for Biden to be president over DeSantis. I will continue to investigate, but as you see I do look for original sources and not brethless news reports from either side. Right now I prefer Scott or Haley to DeSantis, but there is a long time to go before I have to make a choice and my choice won't matter because Utah will go red regardless, although I could see it going 3rd party or maybe even blue if Trump is the nominee. Trump and Biden are the only ones I have 100% eliminated.

I lied, let's look at don't say gay while we are at it.

Looks like I started the dog pile on Copelius rabbit in this thread. For my part, that was not my intent. I simply wanted to draw a contrast and express why I cannot vote for DeSantis. In regards to your post above, the plain language you cite does not ease my concerns. DeSantis plain words about pardoning January 6 rioters, and Trump, and his act of trafficking human beings reveal his character and inform my wariness. Intent must be considered. DeSantis's intentions are not good.

[Copelius]

Looks like I started the dog pile on Copelius rabbit in this thread. For my part, that was not my intent. I simply wanted to draw a contrast and express why I cannot vote for DeSantis. In regards to your post above, the plain language you cite does not ease my concerns. DeSantis plain words about pardoning January 6 rioters, and Trump, and his act of trafficking human beings reveal his character and inform my wariness. Intent must be considered. DeSantis's intentions are not good.

I'll have to look into that. Those two instances are far more concerning than what I see as benign statutes. But I started with the statues, because that's where I always start.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Looks like I started the dog pile on Copelius rabbit in this thread. For my part, that was not my intent. I simply wanted to draw a contrast and express why I cannot vote for DeSantis. In regards to your post above, the plain language you cite does not ease my concerns. DeSantis plain words about pardoning January 6 rioters, and Trump, and his act of trafficking human beings reveal his character and inform my wariness. Intent must be considered. DeSantis's intentions are not good.

Bugs Bunny reference.

[Maximus]

Let's not forget desantis pretended to be a human rights lawyer for prisoners , found out which torture affected them most and then reported it to the interrogators.

[BlueK]

Let's not forget desantis pretended to be a human rights lawyer for prisoners , found out which torture affected them most and then reported it to the interrogators.

Yikes

[Jeff Lebowski]

Let's not forget desantis pretended to be a human rights lawyer for prisoners , found out which torture affected them most and then reported it to the interrogators.

Link?