The Big 12 expansion groundswell

[KillerDog]

So how much of a competitor is Dave Rose? He may be looking at KU, KSU, OU, OSU, UT TT, UM, Louiville, and Pitt all as conference foes.

I think BYU would do better than expected in that conference. BYU's calling cared is consistency, not talent. Frankly, BYU is a lower level Pitt. That consistency has given them great regular season wins but not great wins when the talented teams focus. Playing in a conference that is so tough will give BYU enough wins in the regular season against high talent level programs to allow BYU to regularly get a very good seed in the NCAAs. They still won't have the talent level but they also won't be playing the highly talented and underacheiving teams they've played in the past. I think it would be an ideal thing for the success of the hoops program. I also think it increases the chance that BYU lands the top prospects they target more often. Who knows, maybe even Jabari Parker would come to the Y. That would make a splash in the new conference.

[kccougar]

Yeah, but not as good as Oklahoma Joe's.

[DrumNFeather]

So here's a question. It seems like Bronco has always kind of had an expiration date as the coach and the prevailing thought is that Doman would take over...do you think this move extends Bronco's time at BYU? Also, if he is out in the next few years, does Doman still get the job?

[Surfah]

So here's a question. It seems like Bronco has always kind of had an expiration date as the coach and the prevailing thought is that Doman would take over...do you think this move extends Bronco's time at BYU? Also, if he is out in the next few years, does Doman still get the job?

Depends. Not sure Doman will be ready before Bronco is ready to hang it up. I can definitely see Whittingham come in after a couple 8 win seasons and unhappy Utes in the Pac 10 though.

[OrangeUte]

Depends. Not sure Doman will be ready before Bronco is ready to hang it up. I can definitely see Whittingham come in after a couple 8 win seasons and unhappy Utes in the Pac 10 though.

Don't tell that to cougjunkie. Whit is too big of a wuss to be coaching the cougs.

[Uncle Ted]

Chip Brown update...

Sources say one of the options being looked at by Texas A&M right now would be to delay their departure from the Big 12 to the Southeastern Conference one year. Instead of joining the SEC in 2012 the Aggies would join the SEC in 2013.

It’s not what A&M wants, nor is it what the SEC wants (although there is more consensus than people think in the SEC about having no urgent need to expand - so potential SEC targets such as Virginia Tech, West Virginia and Missouri can really process their next move).

What could essentially amount to a year-long pause in realignment would give the Big 12 two years’ notice and get the Aggies and the SEC out of the legal crosshairs of the schools whose futures are most in doubt if the Big 12 dissolves, led by Baylor.

But just imagine what that means.

After all the rhetoric and rancor expressed in the league the past few weeks (the list of shots is growing so quickly, you almost need to expand your hard drive), it would mean two years of tension beyond description in the Big 12.

Between Baylor and Texas A&M; between Texas A&M and Texas; between Oklahoma and Baylor; Texas and Oklahoma; Oklahoma State (Boone Pickens) and all comers; as well as Texas A&M and the other Big 12 schools who have said they won’t waive their right to sue the SEC.

It would be two years of MMA type hype before every game because there would be REAL hatred between the fan bases of the combatants.

And it would also give the BCS conferences two years decide what they really want to do with college athletics.

Sources say the Pac-12 has indicated it would not expand unless the SEC moved first. So if Texas A&M-to-the-SEC is off the table for two more football seasons, there is a real chance the massive realignment that appeared so imminent just a couple days ago in college athletics could actually be thought out - for better or worse - over time.

All the scenarios about whom the SEC might add to get to 16; about whom the Pac-12 might add and how Texas and the Longhorn Network could or could not fit into a conference structure could be mulled over for weeks and months and not hours and days.

If the Big Ten came to Texas and said we will take you as a member and you can bring the Longhorn Network - with the only caveat being that Texas could not share in any of the revenue from the Big Ten Network, that could be deliberated and discussed thoughtfully.

If the brightest minds in the most powerful BCS conferences wanted to hold a private summit at the Broadmoor or Pinehurst and decide how they wanted to break away from the NCAA and form their own governing body to supervise whatever configuration the super conferences will look like, it could be done meticulously.

For the second year in a row, college athletics is facing massive realignment. This time it’s been, in large part, because the boards of regents at Texas A&M and Oklahoma decided enough was enough. A group of nine people - made up of professionals such as dentists and convenience store owners - were making the decisions about who would be playing in what conference and when.

Not a commissioner. Not a group of athletic directors. Not a group of people who spend every day thinking about the business of college athletics. A group of non-paid volunteers who are appointed to a regents board by that state’s governor.

Think about that for a second.

Sometimes these regents move at the behest of a governor’s agenda as opposed to an athletic director’s agenda. Nonetheless, they are the ones moving the chess pieces in realignment because there is no one watching over college athletics with EVERYONE’S best interests in mind.

In college athletics, it’s been every BCS conference for itself, ever since television in college football broke away from the NCAA’s purview back in 1984 in a landmark lawsuit.

If there is going to be mass chaos and rearranging in college athletics, why not take an extra year and draw up something solid for the future - if there is such a possibility?

Take Texas for instance. In the past two months, the Longhorns have gone from thinking life would be routine in the Big 12 with its new Longhorn Network to thinking they’d be in a 9-team Big 12 until a 10th member could be found.

Texas was on the Big 12 expansion committee charged with finding a replacement(s) for A&M (along with OU, Oklahoma State, Missouri and Kansas State). The list of potential targets for the Big 12 included BYU, Pittsburgh and Louisville with some discussion of how Notre Dame and/or Arkansas might possibly fit into the Big 12 down the road.

Then Oklahoma president David Boren sounded five alarms on Friday about OU possibly bolting the Big 12, and everyone left in the conference went from looking for replacements for A&M to making sure they’d have a chair when the music stopped.

Texas quickly surveyed what life would be like in the Pac-12, the conference it nearly joined a year ago (and, at the time, the personal preference of UT president Bill Powers, a Cal graduate). But it was clear Pac-12 commissioner Larry Scott was not going to allow the Longhorns to move west with LHN intact.

So there was a cursory glance at the Atlantic Coast Conference if ESPN could possibly help make a marriage in which Texas could keep the LHN and join the ACC (because ESPN holds the TV rights to both the ACC and LHN).

But after looking at both the Pac-12 and ACC options, Texas’ administration became adamant about UT holding onto LHN, so the options turned to independence or perhaps something completely outside the box.

An outside the box option would be something like a conference such as the Big Ten allowing Texas to join the league and only make money off of LHN and not share revenue from the Big Ten Network. File that one away.

But when you have to make decisions that could impact your university for the next 100 years and have only a day or two to process it all, it’s crazy.

Sources close to Baylor say the Big East reached out to BU along with Kansas and Kansas State. Maybe so, maybe not. But the Bears didn’t want to take their chances. They have plans to renovate Floyd Casey Stadium with the millions they are promised starting next year in the Big 12, when their TV revenue jumps to between $17 million and $20 million.

Schools make as little as one third of that in leagues like the Mountain West and Conference USA. You’d be desperate too, to hang onto what you’ve got when you’re facing that reality.

Baylor wasn’t going to let that Big 12 paycheck go easily. And now they’ve been joined by the likes of Iowa State, Kansas and Kansas State in refusing to agree to a waiver of legal claims against the SEC. So here we are.

If Texas A&M is seriously looking at an option that would have the Aggies give the two years’ notice of departure to the Big 12, it would most likely just hold the Big 12 together long enough for everyone in college athletics to decide what the landscape should really look like.

Not the landscape dictated by the impulses of dentists and convenience store owners appointed to regents boards on a volunteer basis.

Stay tuned.

[Mormon Red Death]

If this is an option:

An outside the box option would be something like a conference such as the Big Ten allowing Texas to join the league and only make money off of LHN and not share revenue from the Big Ten Network. File that one away.

why wouldnt this be an option for the Pac-12?

[Omaha 680]

If this is an option:



why wouldnt this be an option for the Pac-12?

That's a question for Larry Scott. Everything I've read indicates the LHN is a nonstarter in any form in the PAC.

[Goatnapper'96]

So here's a question. It seems like Bronco has always kind of had an expiration date as the coach and the prevailing thought is that Doman would take over...do you think this move extends Bronco's time at BYU? Also, if he is out in the next few years, does Doman still get the job?

I think Bronco's expiration date will keep getting pushed back. The guy is only 45. I think he will coach at BYU for at least another 10 years. What else is he going to do?

I think part of his schtick wrt being a short termer is it helps him keep an edge. There is a bit of uncertainty, or perception of it, that I think he likes. I also think that while a very good coach, has issues with fans and it makes him a wee bit petty. While I don't see him leaving early, I think it is his subtle warning to not boo me or else I will take my ball and go home. We all have our shortcomings and that is one of Bronco's.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

If this is an option:



why wouldnt this be an option for the Pac-12?

I don't think it would fly with the other big honchos in the Big Ten. If Texas were given special privileges, there are 2-3 and maybe four other teams that would like to form their own networks or are big enough deals to throw their weight around. Ohio state definitely, Michigan maybe and the Nebraska and Penn State.

Also, the Big Ten added Penn State something like 20 years ago. They only want big time programs. Logically, they would want two more teams and Texas and OU fit the bill. But I don't think OU goes anywhere without Okie State and that's probably a non-starter for the Big Ten. There are a ton of roadblocks there.

[Jeff Lebowski]

What's Oklahoma Joe's?

A fabulous little BBQ joint in KC.

[Donuthole]

Chip Brown update...

A&M staying in the B12 for 2 years seems much less likely than A&M playing independent for a year before going to the SEC. Also, it seems like A&M could avoid the delay if they would agree to indemnify the SEC against any tampering/interference claims brought. The fact that they haven't done this tells me A &M is broke and/or thinks the claims have some merit.

[Paperback Writer]

Chip Brown update...

But just imagine what that means.

After all the rhetoric and rancor expressed in the league the past few weeks (the list of shots is growing so quickly, you almost need to expand your hard drive), it would mean two years of tension beyond description in the Big 12.

Don't need to imagine what that will mean for Texas A&M in their final year of play in the Big 12. The Aggies will get the "Nebraska treatment". They will play a conference foe and have 16-145 yds in penalties while the opponent goes 2-10 yds in penalties despite the two teams being very similar in penatly yards for the season going into the game. At the conclusion of the season, Texas A&M will be scheduled with a re-match against SMU in the Hawaii Bowl because the Big 12 doesn't want the Cotton Bowl to play a preview of new SEC rivals LSU-Texas A&M.

[Paperback Writer]

A&M staying in the B12 for 2 years seems much less likely than A&M playing independent for a year before going to the SEC. Also, it seems like A&M could avoid the delay if they would agree to indemnify the SEC against any tampering/interference claims brought. The fact that they haven't done this tells me A &M is broke and/or thinks the claims have some merit.

It's been mentioned by others (Uncle Ted?) that the Aggie athletic department is already $18 million in the hole. That has limited their options and probably why Texas A&M could not invest the capital to partner up with Texas in the LHN or make more progress in launching their own Aggie network. Also think the claims have some merit so thinks it's being broke AND claims having some merit.

[Gaffords]

Earlier this evening, Notre Dame and Texas jointly presented the Big Ten Conference with their proposed terms of entry into the conference. These terms resulted from lengthy discussions among both schools and the Big Ten over the past several months.

The major items include:
1. The preservation of an eight game (plus championship) conference football schedule. Both ND and Texas wish to preserve rivalries with non-Big Ten universities on a regular basis. This would require the Big Ten to abandon its current plans of a 9 game conference schedule.
2. The staggering of the schedule to allow for mid-season scheduling with non-conference football opponents.
3. The preservation of the status quo conference makeup until approximately 2014, unless the Big XII fails to retain key (NOT including A&M) conference members. This will provide the member schools, acting in unison, with the greatest leverage negotiating ongoing television contracts, particularly with ESPN.
4. Should Texas depart the conference for the Big Ten before ND due to the further disintegration of the Big XII, ND will remain independent until approximately 2014
5. The Longhorn Network would remain independent until approximately 2014, at which point the network would become a part of an expanded Big Ten Network (specifically referred to as "BTN2"), likely either in partnership with Fox, NBC, or less likely ABC

The Big Ten just wrapped up a meeting to initially consider all of the terms presented by the schools, including the aforementioned.

Notably, there is a general discontent with the reporting of the situation by ESPN with specific regard to Texas. ESPN has, for self-serving purposes, drastically exaggerated the lean of Texas to the Pac12 conference in nearly all commentary. ESPN has essentially waged a propaganda campaign to drive support among the Texas stakeholders to the Pac12 conference. ESPN has gone so far as to attempt to accelerate the disintegration of the Big XII to pressure Texas into making an immediate conference change decision. Texas has steadfastly resisted change, and will do so until the appropriate time occurs for Texas to stand in a strong position to renegotiate television contracts, including with ESPN.

In reality, the preference expressed by Texas' relevant leadership is to depart the Big XII for the Big Ten at the time that gives Texas the greatest leverage in negotiating a new television rights deal. The Big Ten and Texas agreed that Texas should do what is best for Texas, which they also both agree is a move by Texas to join the Big Ten Conference. Delaney's top priority has been to create an environment for Texas and Notre Dame to join the conference on mutually benefical terms.

Notre Dame has an interest in preserving its traditional rivalries, three of which occur already in the Big Ten, and creating a new national rivalry with a traditional powerhouse. The Big Ten believes that ND prefers independence, but realizes that it will soon have no choice but to join a conference. The Big Ten also believes that ND is trying to position itself so that if it must join a conference, it does so on the most favorable terms possible. Hence the return to the 8 game schedule and a protected game with national power Texas. The Big Ten will attempt to create a mutually beneficial environment for ND that allows it to preserve a great deal of independence to retain all its traditional rivalries within the conference context.

The initial mood at the Big Ten to the terms provided by the two schools is "receptive."
This post was edited on 9/8 2:20 AM by PURPLE Book Cat

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