The Big 12 expansion groundswell

[Applejack]

In terms of all sports (Sears Cup ranking), Stanford is the best team in history and it isn't close. USC and UCLA are also perennially good, typically in the top 10. Too bad they are leaving.

Utah's average rank is around 70, way behind BYU. Sorry.

BYU finished #17 last year and we have been in the top 25 several times. Utah made a big deal about finishing #35 last year - their best ever ranking.

SEC was the top overall conference last year. They will get stronger with Texas in the fold - the first team to unseat Stanford in the rankings.

You are talking about the future. The Pac has the best history, the best venues, the widest geographic reach, the best tradition (Rose Bowl, shared with BIG 10 but they are just visitors), and the best culture.

Bill Walton agrees with me.

[Jeff Lebowski]

You are talking about the future. The Pac has the best history, the best venues, the widest geographic reach, the best tradition (Rose Bowl, shared with BIG 10 but they are just visitors), and the best culture.

Bill Walton agrees with me.

Ha.

Hey, I love California. Half of our kids live there!

[Jeff Lebowski]

That's true in the short term; if Utah is in the Pac 12/Big12/ACC/Independent/Big Sky I am not going to watch the SEC because (a) they suck and (b) I have no affiliation with any of the schools. Same goes for the Big X.

But in the long term it changes who kids cheer for. I've raised my kids correctly and they love the Utes; but if they were in a second tier conference (which they are inevitably now that they aren't in the BIG X/SEC) I could see them loving the Utes AND loving some Big X team (like USC, ). The diehard 40-70 year olds aren't switching allegiances--we've already cast our lots. But the kids will in a heartbeat.

Disagree on your last point. Many of the P12 schools can't get the fans out their own games. And you think the youth of the future are going to get passionate about a college sports team in another state that they didn't even attend? No way. They are going to play ultimate frisbee, go to the beach, or watch people play video games on the internet.

[Uncle Ted]

You are talking about the future. The Pac has the best history, the best venues, the widest geographic reach, the best tradition (Rose Bowl, shared with BIG 10 but they are just visitors), and the best culture.

Bill Walton agrees with me.

The B1G has won the Rose Bowl... I suspect they will be taking it with them. Maybe after a number of PAC 12-2 teams jump to the Big 12 the Rose Bowl can be moved to Dallas and it will become a traditional game between a Big 12 and B1G team. They can still do the parade in California, however.

[tooblue]

Disagree on your last point. Many of the P12 schools can't get the fans out their own games. And you think the youth of the future are going to get passionate about a college sports team in another state that they didn't even attend? No way. They are going to play ultimate frisbee, go to the beach, or watch people play video games on the internet.

Bingo; kids will just stop watching the sports our generations watched altogether, no matter how much you indoctrinate them ... that is what has happened in my home. My children have other interests.

[myboynoah]

Disagree on your last point. Many of the P12 schools can't get the fans out their own games. And you think the youth of the future are going to get passionate about a college sports team in another state that they didn't even attend? No way. They are going to play ultimate frisbee, go to the beach, or watch people play video games on the internet.

Exactly. There's already a product out there which is miles ahead of whatever some SEC or BIG team can put on the field: the NFL.

No doubt Sankey understands this. We watch the playoffs and the national championship game now because our teams played in essentially the same league and we can dream that our teams can reach that one day, maybe next year. If that goes away, then we quit watching what in essence becomes a game between members of an eclusive club that would get killed on the field if they played even the worst NFL team.

[Applejack]

Disagree on your last point. Many of the P12 schools can't get the fans out their own games. And you think the youth of the future are going to get passionate about a college sports team in another state that they didn't even attend? No way. They are going to play ultimate frisbee, go to the beach, or watch people play video games on the internet.

i am in agreement with your point that kids will look to other things generally; just look at esports (which seems to me like watching someone else Facebook). But my point was about the younger generation that likes football; some will gravitate to the big X/SEC.

but I do like Noah’s point that college football relies on a connection to the school (triplet daddy is an exception). If that is totally absent, the nfl wins.

[Bo Diddley]

i am in agreement with your point that kids will look to other things generally; just look at esports (which seems to me like watching someone else Facebook). But my point was about the younger generation that likes football; some will gravitate to the big X/SEC.

but I do like Noah’s point that college football relies on a connection to the school (triplet daddy is an exception). If that is totally absent, the nfl wins.

There will be some cross-over even if people don't live by their teams. If they love the sport, they'll find a tribe to be a part of. I love the Steelers and the Royals but live in Utah.

[Jeff Lebowski]

i am in agreement with your point that kids will look to other things generally; just look at esports (which seems to me like watching someone else Facebook). But my point was about the younger generation that likes football; some will gravitate to the big X/SEC.

but I do like Noah’s point that college football relies on a connection to the school (triplet daddy is an exception). If that is totally absent, the nfl wins.

How is DDD an exception? He grew up in LA as a USC fan and then attended BYU.

Hard to overstate the impact of attending a few games as a kid. When I was little my buddy took me to a few BYU basketball and football games - his dad was a BYU prof. I was hooked for life. Last year I took my grandkids to the BYU-Utah game. They are superfans now.

[fusnik]

Two super duper conferences limited to a total of 40-50 schools is dumb and unsustainable. This is not the NFL. If one's school does not have access to a championship, especially if they had it before, people will simply quit watching. People feel loyalty to their schools. If you kick out Miss State or Purdue, those fans are not going to simply migrate over to being Ole Miss or IU fans.

I suspect we will settle into three large conferences that will include most of the schools that want to and are willing to dedicate the resources needed to compete at the top level and have some expectation of making some form of a playoff. Otherwise, this whole thing falls apart.

Three super conferences would be 50 teams.

So two super conferences with 40 teams is dumb and unsustainable but three with 50 is going to help people feel
loyalty?

There’s a couple problems with the P12, one the average Seattle kid and LA kid and San Fran kid cannot get into UW, USC/UCLA and Cal and Stanford. Pete Carroll addressed this, and reached out to the local celebrities and made it cool to cheer for SC. Two, California is at a 20 year low in football participation with steep declines over the last 8 years. COVID damage not included, will be interesting to see what those numbers look like in 6 months.

[fusnik]

How is DDD an exception? He grew up in LA as a USC fan and then attended BYU.

Hard to overstate the impact of attending a few games as a kid. When I was little my buddy took me to a few BYU basketball and football games - his dad was a BYU prof. I was hooked for life. Last year I took my grandkids to the BYU-Utah game. They are superfans now.

Purdue isn’t selling out their stadium unless Ohio State is coming to town. The last 15 years have been atrocious for Purdue, averaged like 37k a game in a 60k plus stadium.

And this isn’t abnormal, attendance for college games right before the pandemic were at 25 year lows. People want to watch regional powerhouses they can somewhat relate to at home while they surf other games.

[Uncle Ted]

Purdue isn’t selling out their stadium unless Ohio State is coming to town. The last 15 years have been atrocious for Purdue, averaged like 37k a game in a 60k plus stadium.

And this isn’t abnormal, attendance for college games right before the pandemic were at 25 year lows. People want to watch regional powerhouses they can somewhat relate to at home while they surf other games.

Have you ever been to West Lafayette? There are more things to do in Lubbock. Maybe that is why they average like 57K a game in a 60K plus stadium.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Purdue. Lol.

[LiveCoug]

There’s a couple problems with the P12, one the average Seattle kid and LA kid and San Fran kid cannot get into UW, USC/UCLA and Cal and Stanford.

Why are you lumping UW with those others? UW acceptance rate is 56%. The others are 16% or less

[Omaha 680]

Purdue isn’t selling out their stadium unless Ohio State is coming to town. The last 15 years have been atrocious for Purdue, averaged like 37k a game in a 60k plus stadium.

And this isn’t abnormal, attendance for college games right before the pandemic were at 25 year lows. People want to watch regional powerhouses they can somewhat relate to at home while they surf other games.

Where are you getting your data? The only recent years Purdue has averaged less than 40,000 were the last three years of the worst coach they have had in the last 25 years (Darrell Hazell). That ended in 2016. Pandemic year excluded, they have risen back to >95% capacity last year. Even including the down years under Hazell, they have averaged over 48k the last 15 years. Also capacity is 57k since 2013.