The Big 12 expansion groundswell

[NorthwestUteFan]

Honestly I won't send my kids to Utah either, but that is because I feel they can get a better education elsewhere for the $24k/yr out of state tuition will cost.

Very often people would ask me if Utah is the 'school run by that fucking cult that forbids people to drink caffeine, but has no problem marrying your fourteen year old second cousin?' I would need to explain that the church isn't as bad as they make it sound, and that they are thinking of byu instead.

And why do people think byu would be a poor fit for the big 12? DeLoss Dodds is a Utah County name if I ever heard one.

[Red Legger]

The heart of the matter.

I thought it was kind of funny...
If I were a Ute fan, lamer road trips would absolutely be my reason for not wanting a PAC 16. I don't see Texas and OU as any tougher roadblocks to the BCS than USC and Oregon.

That said, the PAC 16 is not going go happen. I can't believe people are falling for this again. Texas is not (figuratively) leaving Texas--for freaking football!

Sheez...hasn't FNL taught you anything?

Can you imagine communications from Larry Scott to Deloss Dodds via Mountain View California? Can you imagine a former tennis player telling Deloss Dodds to do anything he doesn't want to do? Do ya'll really think the LHN will just be regionalized and won't be back in one form or another in two to four years in some bigger and badder version. How long would UT stand for playing a conference championship in Pullman or Corvallis when Jerryworld is empty on that date. How long will Stanford/Cal stand for UT's crap afore pulling the original Pac 8 out and leaving Utah/CU in some nightmarish rump inland Pac 16? Can you imagine what a nightmare that would be for the Buffs? The UT Whorns have now blown up two conferences in twenty years and show no signs of stopping at two. This isn't even adding on OU's baggage to the Pac 16.

Trust me, you don't want these folks. Us Plainsmen can handle their crap. We're neighbors. We understand they don't play nicely in the sandbox. Larry Scott has no idea what he's doing mixing Tejas/Okie football w/ Stanford/Cal snootery.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk Beat Mizzou

[Shaka]

My question is what would happen to BYUTV?

[Mormon Red Death]

Honestly I won't send my kids to Utah either, but that is because I feel they can get a better education elsewhere for the $24k/yr out of state tuition will cost.

Very often people would ask me if Utah is the 'school run by that fucking cult that forbids people to drink caffeine, but has no problem marrying your fourteen year old second cousin?' I would need to explain that the church isn't as bad as they make it sound, and that they are thinking of byu instead.

And why do people think byu would be a poor fit for the big 12? DeLoss Dodds is a Utah County name if I ever heard one.

Out of state alumni kids pay in state tuition now.

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[NorthwestUteFan]

Local news last night had an interview with Larry Scott, off camera. He said one of the absolutes to conference expansion was Texas dumping the lhn. It may be possible to roll it into the PAC network somehow.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Out of state alumni kids pay in state tuition now.

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IIRC that is only at Utah State.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Cougmandias, well stated. A conference like that would be the greatest in most sports.

Also fwiw there is no way in hell that byu will get left out of a theoretical Super 64 conferences.

[LA Ute]

Can you imagine communications from Larry Scott to Deloss Dodds via Mountain View California? Can you imagine a former tennis player telling Deloss Dodds to do anything he doesn't want to do? Do ya'll really think the LHN will just be regionalized and won't be back in one form or another in two to four years in some bigger and badder version. How long would UT stand for playing a conference championship in Pullman or Corvallis when Jerryworld is empty on that date. How long will Stanford/Cal stand for UT's crap afore pulling the original Pac 8 out and leaving Utah/CU in some nightmarish rump inland Pac 16? Can you imagine what a nightmare that would be for the Buffs? The UT Whorns have now blown up two conferences in twenty years and show no signs of stopping at two. This isn't even adding on OU's baggage to the Pac 16.

Trust me, you don't want these folks. Us Plainsmen can handle their crap. We're neighbors. We understand they don't play nicely in the sandbox. Larry Scott has no idea what he's doing mixing Tejas/Okie football w/ Stanford/Cal snootery.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk Beat Mizzou

RL, obviously you didn't get the memo about the true reason we're wary of Texas being in our conference: We're scared to death of playing them.

[Green Monstah]

Out of state alumni kids pay in state tuition now.

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Thats great for alumni, but a fairly ridiculous financial decision.

[Mormon Red Death]

IIRC that is only at Utah State.

No its utah

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[Mormon Red Death]

Thats great for alumni, but a fairly ridiculous financial decision.

This has been discussed in another thread but it is favorable to the U

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[Jeff Lebowski]

RL, obviously you didn't get the memo about the true reason we're wary of Texas being in our conference: We're scared to death of playing them.

That's not what I said, amigo. I said you are scared to death of being put in an 8-team division with OU and Texas. Most of the posts that followed my comment have confirmed that, including yours.

[Jeff Lebowski]

SeattleUte, I realize you genuinly enjoy the trolling and think this is all a game of some kind. I'm certain the pleasure you derive from continually denigrating people is representative of insecurities I do not understand. I am truly sorry that you were hurt or marginalized in some way by the LDS church and its culture etc., but your obsession with continually mocking members of the church and BYU fans is unhealthy. You are the single biggest reason I do not participate here on this message board with any regularity. Your desire to be cruel at times frightens me. I regret ever having communicated with you outside of these forums primarily because I do not trust the repercussions of what you might do with my personal information, in your possession, if I crossed you.

I'm not trolling, I'm being honest. I realize many here have learned to appreciate you. Good for them. Good for you.

Why am I writing this post? Because yesterday I had the strangest of text exchanges with Moromon Red Death. He was unusually aggressive about this subject matter in particular. Honestly, I have been paying attention to the developments but not THAT MUCH attention. As a result I felt I had to come here and really read what has been going on. This thread is remarkable and not in a good way.

There are people who are very heavily invested emotionally in all of this. I don't know whether that's a good or bad thing. Part of thinks it's a good thing. I love BYU football and to a much lessor degree—because of my upbringing as a ute—Utah football. At times I have attempted to be cruel with my talk of Utah football but really, I am happy Utah got an invite to the PAC 12. I'm also strangely pleased with BYU as an independent. Though I don't expect it to really happen I would be thrilled to see BYU as a member of the BIG 12.

All of the above being said, these teams, BYU and Utah respectively, are very closely linked to our personal identity and sense of self. If this really is as valuable a community as many have professed it to be then we all should be a little more careful with what we say in regards to this really exciting time for each team and it's fans. Yes, I am didactic. So what. Flame away if you'd like. But holy hell, relax a little and enjoy the season.

This is quite possibly the most bizarre thing you have ever posted.

[Red Legger]

Culture is created. The conglomeration of who is in the conference determines the culture of the conference. That's why the Arizona schools are now said to fit in the Pac culturally. Their culture and the culture of the conference have both changed to make a unified culture. The same happened with the Big 10 and Penn State. I think the best thing that could happen for Utah was to be aligned with the Pac10 schools. I think culturally the Pac is what Utah wants to become and being in the conference with them will help them to become it.

Back to the topic of the thread, my fear regarding BYU's independence has centered around the cultural isolation that such a move will cause to a University and a people that can't afford further social isolationism. On the other hand, without Utah to act as a bridge, the MWC schools and BYU are culturally too disparate (if you want a further explanation on what the gap is I can provide but it is irrelevant to my point here) to coexist. The Big XII, OTOH, has quite a bit in common with BYU from a cultural perspective. They are not identical but they are close enough to make cultural ties possible and form a long lasting conference. Consider that the Big XII consists of large schools in the "fly-over" states that have embraced the "fly-over" nature of their states and rejected those who don't agree with their lifestyle or politics. BYU is perfect from that perspective. They are a religious institution but so is Baylor, and they focus as a school on athletic excellence. The Big XII is a great fit for BYUa and BYU is a great fit for the Big XII. I'm looking forward to seeing how the cultural influences of the Pac 12 and the Big XII affect the cultures of BYU and Utah and therefore the rivalry.

Nice post. From the land of the Free State Abolitionists/John Brown to Carrie Nation to Fred Phelps/Timothy McVey, I'd welcome the culturally isolated and misunderstood BYU Cougars into the fold. For the next 50 years, we'll keep producing our wheat/beef/air planes and playing our brand of football/basketball. It'll be a nice combination if these stoopid Okies don't screw it up at the last second.

'Kansas farmers should raise less corn and more hell.'-Mary Lease, 19th century Kansas Populist

Rock Chalk Jayhawk, Beat Mizzou

[Jeff Lebowski]

Let me put this in a different context. As a parent with a kid looking at college choices already (no, really!), I can't think of one good reason to suggest the U as a destination. Not one that has to do with something other than Utah's nature, anyway, and UVU would be sufficient for that.

So Utah doesn't even register on my schools to look at as an out of stater. BYU at least has reasons for me to look at things, although I have qualms there.

So if I'm in any way representative of people generally, it is a fair claim to say that Utah is tied very closely to the culture of it's namesake state and is otherwise not noteworthy. It is irrelevant. I'll resist playing the Summon FMCoug card at this point. At least BYU has special relevance, for better or for worse.

On the flipside, I can think of a bunch of reasons to consider a lot of the old PAC-8 schools.

That's seems overly harsh. To compare Utah and UVU (even tangentially) is absurd.

Utah is not in the same league as Cal, Standford, UCLA, USC, but they are a good school with some excellent programs, strong research, and a bright future. Other than the rivalry thing, I wouldn't have a problem sending a child there.