The Big 12 expansion groundswell

[Red Legger]

hugely important - flaw in any PAC-16 talk. Texas does not like California at all, aNot sure if the feeling is mutual but the cultures definitely clash (similarities of Texas Barbies to everybody I've ever seen on Weeds aside). Austin is probably a city that appeals to many but the rest? Not so much.

I didn't mean to bag too much on Stillwater. It is the center of Red Dirt Culture:

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mNVn4POoVg"]Cross Canadian Ragweed-Boys From Oklahoma - YouTube[/nomedia]

I've been to three games down there over the years, eaten at Eskimo Joes like everyone else and generally had a great time. OkieState also appears to me to do a fine job in its LandGrant mission for the state of Oklahoma. However, it is one thing for a Kanzas kid who grew up going to dances in a place called the Bohemian Hall a bit south of Willa Cather's Red Cloud Nebraska to appreciate Stillwater. It is another thing for for someone from the Bay area.

As far as Big 12 cities, the only completely undesirable one is Columbia Missoura. Not only is it the home of the notorious Boone County Sheriffs Dept's I-70 speedtrap, but the economy is supported by three things: 1-interstate strippers, 2-fireworks, 3-meth. And they also have walnut bowls. A truely boring, despicable place.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk, Beat Mizzou

[Red Legger]

I've been told by people that DeLoss Dodds is a genius. So far mostly all I've seen him do is spin off Nebraska and aTm, which doesn't seem to be very genius-like to me. On the other hand, he did Jedi mind trick the PAC into taking Colorado.

More than anything he, and Bill Powers, are greedy. Trying to run a University like a professional sports franchise is nothing but greed. The place already makes $130 million off the backs of MBB/Football. What more can you squeeze outta these kids? I like their style but don't complain when it bites you in the arse.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk, Beat Mizzou

[Uncle Ted]

Chip Brown on Yahoo Sports Radio... Nothing really new here.

• OU is the key in keeping the Big 12 together.
• Other conferences are making calls and looking at schools to pick up if the Big 12 does, indeed, implode.
• Texas has no interest in going to the SEC and believes it is not a good fit.
• Texas really likes its LHN and it is one of the main reasons the longhorns wants to keep the Big 12 together.
• The LHN doesn't work for the Pac-12 because of revenue sharing and would have a TV rights problem in the ACC.

[Coach McGuirk]

Texas better learn that equal rev sharing is the only thing that will keep this conference together fast. That or they better start laying the ground for a new conference.

[UtahDan]

I agree with Babs. Punitive liquidated damages clauses such as what Dr. C. is talking about are unenforceable. BYU, ND, Texas, et al. know this.

That is BYU's hangup, I imagine: There's no real way to guarantee that Texas and OU will remain in the B-i-g 1-2.

This question about whether a liquidated damages provision is an impermissible penalty is an issue I encounter frequently. Knowing as I do the latest jurisprudence in my state on the analysis that goes into that I am frequently able to draft my way around it.

Sorry if this is asking anyone to repeat, but how do we know that the provisions of those contracts would not be enforceable?

[Uncle Ted]

The Pac-12 presidents and chancellors don't want to expand... but would consider adding OU and OSU.

Here’s the latest, based on weekend conversations with sources from several conferences and numerous schools:

*** The Pac-12 presidents and chancellors do not want to expand. Their strong preference is for Texas A&M-to-the-SEC to implode and for the Big 12 to remain viable — essentially, they want the status quo for as long as they can get it.

Why? Because they have everything they want.

The conference has stability… it has a football championship game … it has the richest TV deal in college sports history … and it has a wholly-owned network(s) to serve its fans, provide unprecedented exposure for its athletes, promote the league’s academic mission — and generate millions of dollars per school annually once it attains maximum distribution.

The CEOs believe the Pac-12 is the best-positioned conference in the country. They don’t want 16 teams, and they don’t want the SEC and Big Ten going to 16 teams, either.

[...]

*** And yes, in all likelihood the Pac-12 would take Oklahoma and Oklahoma State even if Texas were off the table, multiple sources said.

“Right now, it’s wait-and-see mode,” added one. “The happiest result for the Pac-12 is if the status quo is maintained.”

Academics would be a point of contention if the status quo unravels, however.

Sources said that at least five schools (Stanford, Cal, USC, UCLA and Washington) have serious questions about admitting the Oklahoma schools, which are not members of the Association of American Universities.

But when I asked a source close to Stanford president John Hennessy, one of the league’s most influential CEOs, if the AAU issue would be a deal-breaker, the answer was: “Probably not.”

Said another source: “If Larry (Scott) thinks adding (Oklahoma and OSU) is the right thing, the CEOs will ultimately fall in line.”

(Utah is not an AAU member. Nor are Arizona State, Oregon State and Washington State, for that matter.)

[...]

*** If massive realignment occurs with the Oklahoma schools, Texas and TTU joining the Pac-12 … and with A&M and Missouri headed to the SEC … then Kansas probably goes to the Big East, likely in tandem with Kansas State.

The Big 12 schools in the biggest trouble would be Baylor and Iowa State.

“They might have to go backwards,” said a source — meaning Conference USA or the Mountain West.

[UtahDan]

This question about whether a liquidated damages provision is an impermissible penalty is an issue I encounter frequently. Knowing as I do the latest jurisprudence in my state on the analysis that goes into that I am frequently able to draft my way around it.

Sorry if this is asking anyone to repeat, but how do we know that the provisions of those contracts would not be enforceable?

To elaborate a little, at least when I am drafting I am conscious that a liquidated damages provision is not going to be upheld if the actual damages can be ascertained or where the stipulated amount would be grossly in excess of actual damages. At first blush I would think that it might be difficult to calculate the impact Texas signing on and then later taking off. But maybe that is easier to quantify than I think.

[byu71]

The more I think about it, the more I think 12 is plenty big enough for a conference. I guess 14 would be good if that means BYU gets in, but at 16 and even 14 the conference loses it's identity for me.

OK, the PAC16. Who would I really not give a crap about. Okla. St., Texas Tech., Colorado, Cal., Stanford, Arizona, ASU, WSU and Oregon St.

For me, who has Utah as his second favorite team, my interest in Utah as a PAC12 school is high. As a PAC16 school it loses a lot. Especially if they get hooked up in a division with two big boys and then all the rest.

At least as it sits now the Utes are in a division with only one big boy.

I remember the ole WAC16. I couldn't care less about half of the conference.

[SteelBlue]

I haven't heard anything about aTm in almost a week. The rumors were that this week was when the SEC invite was coming. In fact, I seem to remember that today was to have been the day. Have you Texas guys been hearing anything specific?

[shoganai]

BYU has put basic pieces in place for a last-resort contigency plan if the BCS consolidates to four conferences and they can't find a seat anywhere.

The plan is to partner with ESPN and create a fifth "super" conference made up of the best and most financially viable teams from coast-to-coast that got left out. This would likely include previous BCS busters, super conference rejects, and big market teams with the most competitive potential/history.

It would be built with the same philosophy as the original 1999 MWC - build a league from the outside that can eventually become good enough and big enough to crash the inside. Except this time it would be basically be custom built by BYU and one or two others, with ESPN's full backing.

ESPN would do everything it could to prop it up because the worst possible thing for the TV networks is conference consolidation. It drives prices up and inventory down.

Again, this is only a last resort-type plan and I think we're still a good distance away from that. But, these contingencies and long-term speculative strategies are in place.

[LA Ute]

The Pac-12 presidents and chancellors don't want to expand... but would consider adding OU and OSU.

Sources said that at least five schools (Stanford, Cal, USC, UCLA and Washington) have serious questions about admitting the Oklahoma schools, which are not members of the Association of American Universities.

But when I asked a source close to Stanford president John Hennessy, one of the league’s most influential CEOs, if the AAU issue would be a deal-breaker, the answer was: “Probably not.”

...

(Utah is not an AAU member. Nor are Arizona State, Oregon State and Washington State, for that matter.)

For reasons that are not clear to me, AAU membership is a big deal to the eight PAC-12 schools who are already members, but I don't see how that keeps OU and OSU out. Utah is expected to become an AAU member in the next 2-3 years, and that would make 9 schools out of 12 as AAU members, but if OU and OSU joined the PAC-12, the ratio of AAU members to non-members would not be different than it is now.

All that aside, I was really happy to hear that the PAC-12 doesn't want to expand. The Big 12 needs to stay as it is and add BYU, which is what I expect to happen once the dust settles.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I didn't mean to bag too much on Stillwater. It is the center of Red Dirt Culture:

Cross Canadian Ragweed-Boys From Oklahoma - YouTube

A classic CCR tune. Nicely done.

Another excellent song about the crystal meth industry in north Texas/Oklahoma.

[YOUTUBE]7TSaqMyPwBM[/YOUTUBE]

[creekster]

BYU has put basic pieces in place for a last-resort contigency plan if the BCS consolidates to four conferences and they can't find a seat anywhere.

The plan is to partner with ESPN and create a fifth "super" conference made up of the best and most financially viable teams from coast-to-coast that got left out. This would likely include previous BCS busters, super conference rejects, and big market teams with the most competitive potential/history.

It would be built with the same philosophy as the original 1999 MWC - build a league from the outside that can eventually become good enough and big enough to crash the inside. Except this time it would be basically be custom built by BYU and one or two others, with ESPN's full backing.

ESPN would do everything it could to prop it up because the worst possible thing for the TV networks is conference consolidation. It drives prices up and inventory down.

Again, this is only a last resort-type plan and I think we're still a good distance away from that. But, these contingencies and long-term speculative strategies are in place.

I have no doubt this is true. One of the things that sometimes amuses me about these threads is the implicit premise of many posts that BYU is purely reactive and flying by the seat of its pants. I have no doubt that the BYU admin has a set of contiongency plans in place to account for any number of possible actions by others. This would also be true of other schools involved. These are not stupid people running these schools.

[Cougarmandias]

To elaborate a little, at least when I am drafting I am conscious that a liquidated damages provision is not going to be upheld if the actual damages can be ascertained or where the stipulated amount would be grossly in excess of actual damages. At first blush I would think that it might be difficult to calculate the impact Texas signing on and then later taking off. But maybe that is easier to quantify than I think.

Right, depending on how you drafted it, you could make it stick. You'd probably need to exhaustively detail in the contract the number of different ways that BYU's position could suck if Texas or OU bailed and have them sign off on it. That way, either the liquidated damages clause is enforceable or you at least make sure that Texas and OU had a major incentive in any realignment scenario to make sure that BYU ended up in a good spot.

The fact that Texas and especially OU aren't willing to sign any such agreement suggests that they have lawyers who are telling them that the agreements might stick. BYU is in a somewhat unique position in that it appears to have a genuine alternative right now--independence--which in turn means that they are giving up something for the Big 12, which makes liquidated damages more plausible.

Or, in lieu of a liquidated damages clause, you could do some other creative lawyering. For example, Texas and and OU could sell BYU their Tier 1 and Tier II TV rights for any games not under contract to the Big 12. You would have to be careful about how you structured it, maybe do it as an option or something, but you could probably make it stick.

[oxcoug]

yes. What has become patently evident over the last two years is that these arrangements mean nothing. That's why the concept of 16-team conferences is so absurd. That makes for sixteen parties with diverse and conflicting interests, and little in common. I would imagine that with sixteen teams, the first schools would end up bailing within two years.

Babs is on point.

It becomes an EU type problem where everyone is something but nobody's anything.