The PAC 10 expansion groundswell

[shoganai]

I hope the new conference for BYU and Utah plays out with the following teams.

Kansas
K-St
Baylor
Iowa St.
Utah
BYU
TCU
Houston
New Mexico
Boise St.
UNLV
SDSU

For a 12 team conference. No need to go 16 if you don't have quality teams. If they do want to go 14 then add Air Force and Tulsa. I don't think there are a total of 16 quality schools available for this new conference. I know that SDSU, UNLV and New Mexico could probably be considered "not quality" but you need SDSU and UNLV for their markets and New Mexico brings a really good basketball team to picture.

IMO, it's more likely that the (presumably) 10-team MWC just adds Kansas St. and Kansas without kicking anyone out of its own ranks.

Yes, I'd be has happy as anybody to see Wyoming kicked out. But, politically speaking, it seems like it would be easier to keep our own 10, and add a nice new market and two great basketball schools.

Iowa St. and Baylor sure beat the heck out of Wyoming, but do they add anything market-wise?

[Hot Lunch]

IMO, it's more likely that the (presumably) 10-team MWC just adds Kansas St. and Kansas without kicking anyone out of its own ranks.

Which would be very disappointing IMO. The bottom of the MWC is a joke.

[shoganai]

Which would be very disappointing IMO. The bottom of the MWC is a joke.

The bottom of EVERY conference is a joke. There is always a basement, and there will always be one or two teams to occupy it.

Yes, Laramie might be a bit more of a joke in terms of location, but look around. Every conference has its bottom feeders, and it will always be that way. Kick out a Wyoming and another clown will promptly take its place - just maybe with a more temperate climate and fewer drunk cowboys.

[Coach McGuirk]

Which would be very disappointing IMO. The bottom of the MWC is a joke.

Yes. Yes it is. When I am buying season tickets for a line up of SDSU, WYO, UNLV, and UNM, I am surprised that I end up pulling the trigger.

[falafel]

Iowa St. and Baylor sure beat the heck out of Wyoming, but do they add anything market-wise?

Wyoming is the least populated state in the country. Literally ANYTHING is an upgrade market-wise. Baylor is in the second biggest state (by population). Iowa has a larger population than Utah.

[shoganai]

Wyoming is the least populated state in the country. Literally ANYTHING is an upgrade market-wise. Baylor is in the second biggest state (by population). Iowa has a larger population than Utah.

I definitely agree regarding Wyoming vs. anybody. Regarding Iowa St., if there was one thing the MWC schools learned from the WAC disaster, it's that population means nothing. It's about revenue, and ISU doesn't bring much there to my knowledge.

I'm just thinking that the cleanest, quickest way to get this done is for the 10-team MWC to just add the Kansas schools. Otherwise you're talking about essentially disolving two conferences instead of one. Bowl contracts, TV deals, etc. all get very, very messy.

Now if Nebraska and/or Missouri don't get scooped up by the Big 14-16, we have a whole different story...

[cougjunkie]

The bottom of EVERY conference is a joke. There is always a basement, and there will always be one or two teams to occupy it.

Yes, Laramie might be a bit more of a joke in terms of location, but look around. Every conference has its bottom feeders, and it will always be that way. Kick out a Wyoming and another clown will promptly take its place - just maybe with a more temperate climate and fewer drunk cowboys.

Look at strictly the 2 last place teams in all the BCS football conferences and the MWC:

ACC: Maryland, Virginia
Big 12: Kansas, Baylor
Big East: Syracuse, Louisville
Big 10: Michigan, Indiana
Pac 10: Arizona State, Washington State
SEC: Vanderbilt, Mississippi State

MWC: Colorado State, New Mexico.

Sorry but the bottom of the MWC is much worse than the ones above and really its not even close.

[cougjunkie]

I definitely agree regarding Wyoming vs. anybody. Regarding Iowa St., if there was one thing the MWC schools learned from the WAC disaster, it's that population means nothing. It's about revenue, and ISU doesn't bring much there to my knowledge.

I'm just thinking that the cleanest, quickest way to get this done is for the 10-team MWC to just add the Kansas schools. Otherwise you're talking about essentially disolving two conferences instead of one. Bowl contracts, TV deals, etc. all get very, very messy.

Now if Nebraska and/or Missouri don't get scooped up by the Big 14-16, we have a whole different story...

I think you are looking at it wrong, why would those 4 teams leave the Big 12? They have the Big 12 TV contracts, the big 12 championship game, and right now an automatic BCS berth (which according to contracts is in place until at least 2013.) So the MWC teams will be leaving to join the Big 12, not vice versa. That is why the Big 12 will start with the 4 remaining teams regardless and then add from there.

[Hot Lunch]

Look at strictly the 2 last place teams in all the BCS football conferences and the MWC:

ACC: Maryland, Virginia
Big 12: Kansas, Baylor
Big East: Syracuse, Louisville
Big 10: Michigan, Indiana
Pac 10: Arizona State, Washington State
SEC: Vanderbilt, Mississippi State

MWC: Colorado State, New Mexico.

Sorry but the bottom of the MWC is much worse than the ones above and really its not even close.

Thank you Junkie. I was just about to post something similar to this but I got caught up with something at work.

[UtahDan]

Look at strictly the 2 last place teams in all the BCS football conferences and the MWC:

ACC: Maryland, Virginia
Big 12: Kansas, Baylor
Big East: Syracuse, Louisville
Big 10: Michigan, Indiana
Pac 10: Arizona State, Washington State
SEC: Vanderbilt, Mississippi State

MWC: Colorado State, New Mexico.

Sorry but the bottom of the MWC is much worse than the ones above and really its not even close.

I can't speak for the others, but you are wrong about the ACC.

[shoganai]

I think you are looking at it wrong, why would those 4 teams leave the Big 12? They have the Big 12 TV contracts, the big 12 championship game, and right now an automatic BCS berth (which according to contracts is in place until at least 2013.) So the MWC teams will be leaving to join the Big 12, not vice versa. That is why the Big 12 will start with the 4 remaining teams regardless and then add from there.

I guess it all depends on when/if the Big 12 basically ceases to exist as a legal entity. If it does not in fact cease to exist if 50-66% of its membership is gone, then you're definitely right. Which is fine with me.

Whether or not we have Iowa St. and Baylor in our conference is really much less interesting to me, however, than whether we can somehow end up with Nebraska or Missouri. That would assure BCS qualification for the conference, IMO, if the Kansas schools on their own did not.

[cougjunkie]

I can't speak for the others, but you are wrong about the ACC.

You would not take Maryland and Virginia over New Mexico and CSU?

I find that hard to believe, other than the fact that you live in that are and you have possibly developed a hatred for their respective fan bases.

[Hot Lunch]

I can't speak for the others, but you are wrong about the ACC.

Sorry UD, but I couldn't disagree more with you on this.

[Moliere]

Recruiting. It is all about recruiting for Houston and Baylor. Houston and Baylor give you and even bigger presence in Texas. Having 3 teams in the state that arguably has the best recruiting state in the country is huge. Houston is a great market and if they are in a better conference, maybe they start to get more love down there.

Recruiting might be the only redeeming factor of Houston. You might get one or two kids up to BYU that you might not have gotten without the promise to play in Houston every other year. Other than that, you might be better off adding Rice just so you can say you have an academic powerhouse in the conference.

Houston is a great market, but it's dominated by aTm, UT, LSU, and Oklahoma fans. There's even a couple TTech and Baylor fans sprinkled around too.

[shoganai]

Look at strictly the 2 last place teams in all the BCS football conferences and the MWC:

ACC: Maryland, Virginia
Big 12: Kansas, Baylor
Big East: Syracuse, Louisville
Big 10: Michigan, Indiana
Pac 10: Arizona State, Washington State
SEC: Vanderbilt, Mississippi State

MWC: Colorado State, New Mexico.

Sorry but the bottom of the MWC is much worse than the ones above and really its not even close.

The one thing I'd say is, relatively speaking, nobody in those conferences gets any more excited about playing Vanderbilt or Indiana than we get for Wyoming or CSU.

We can all agree that as far as markets and locations go, you're not going to get much worse than Laramie. However, I believe that even the Wyomings and CSUs of the world would carry a lot more gravitas if they had BCS money coming in every year.

I guess what I'm saying is, as far as pure competitiveness on the field, the gap from Florida to the bottom of the SEC, is just as big, or bigger than the gap from BYU/Utah/TCU to the bottom of the MWC.

The only difference is, with BCS money and fan interest, everybody's level gets raised a little higher and even the bottom feeders like Maryland get a little more street cred.

Just my two cents. Really, though, if this all shakes out so that our biggest debate is between ISU or CSU, we'll be in great shape.