The PAC 10 expansion groundswell

[Surfah]

Sure. I think that Utah going to another conference is a symptom of the byu's problems. Not the problem in itself. I think that the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer (in college football - the sport that drives the bus). What I think we've seen this offseason is how other schools view the byu and its inextricable involvement with LDS issues. Based on athletics alone, the byu shouldn't be considered one of the "poor" teams, but the LDS-related issues (academic freedom, liberalism, social issues, etc.) are only going to make the gulf wider in the future, IMO.

The byu will continue to have success in the mwc and against whatever teams it plays from other conferences, but - in my mind, at least - it has now become clearer than ever that the byu will forever be an outsider, or at least even more marginalized in comparison with its peer institutions.

So, the byu can win all its games every year in every sport, but they're going to have to address some fundamental issues of their university and academic culture if they are going to gain acceptance from peer institutions. I doubt the byu will cave on those issues.

That's why I think this is a watershed moment for the byu and its athletic programs. As the rich schools get more advantages at the expense of the poorer schools, the byu will struggle to maintain both its religiously based ideals and its athletic competitiveness.

And when BYU gets their seat at the table without fundamental changes to their mission, what then? It's not an if but when proposition. Other than that I agree with Flystripper.

[SeattleUte]

And when BYU gets their seat at the table without fundamental changes to their mission, what then? It's not an if but when proposition. Other than that I agree with Flystripper.

One thing that the past two months have clarified and confirmed is that there isn't a fan base or group of alumni as football- or sportscentric as BYU. To you guys it's all about sports. I read the other day a BYU fan quoted Fehldberg saying BYU almost gave up sports, and this guy said, "Can you imagine how our lives would have changed?" This seemed to me a comically ridiculous and sad statement from a fan about a spectator sports team. I used to have courtside seats at the Sonics; they left Seattle; it didn't affect my life in any way but trivial ways.

BYU may weasel your way into the Big 12, but it'll still be disrespected in ways that matter most--except to BYU fans, it seems.

[creekster]

One thing that the past two months have clarified and confirmed is that there isn't a fan base or group of alumni as football- or sportscentric as BYU. To you guys it's all about sports. I read the other day a BYU fan quoted Fehldberg saying BYU almost gave up sports, and this guy said, "Can you imagine how our lives would have changed?" This seemed to me a comically ridiculous and sad statement from a fan about a spectator sports team. I used to have courtside seats at the Sonics; they left Seattle; it didn't affect my life in any way but trivial ways.

BYU may weasel your way into the Big 12, but it'll still be disrespected in ways that matter most--except to BYU fans, it seems.

ANd so we see the bets being hedged.

[LiveCoug]

BYU may weasel your way into the Big 12, but it'll still be disrespected in ways that matter most--except to BYU fans, it seems.

Your posts are tired, old and unoriginal but MAN if you aren't consistent!

[SeattleUte]

Your posts are tired, old and unoriginal but MAN if you aren't consistent!

I'm just making the canary in the mine point. You all should be reflecting about the Pac 10's disrespect even if BYU winds up in the Big 12. Surfah is just wrong that a Big 12 invitation would vindicate BYU. Of course, as I've noted, I suspect BYU has the same or similar problem with the Big 12.

[beelzebabette]

ANd so we see the bets being hedged.

Your posts are tired, old and unoriginal but MAN if you aren't consistent!

I never <3 SU more than on days like this.

[SeattleUte]

I never <3 SU more than on days like this.

3B, sorry, but I think BYU's transgressions are very serious. It's not your fault, though. I think you're probably ill at ease with them.

[creekster]

3B, sorry, but I think BYU's transgressions are very serious. It's not your fault, though. I think you're probably ill at ease with them.

That's very generous of you. Of course, if we Mormon-ish BYU fans weren't so well-trained to be nice to others we would have told you to *%%# off a long time ago and pulled the plug on your musings. Well, in addition to being nice it is also becasue your rants are amusing, but you get the idea.

Btw, if you really think that BYU fans care more about sports than fans of other schools, you haven't met fans of many other schools. Maybe Babs can contribute on this thought when she has a chance. Don't mistakenly think that the Utes or the Supersonics are typical. After all, the Sonics didnt leave becaseu the fans were so rabid.

[LA Ute]

Anyway, as Ute fan I'd just like to say how happy I am that Utah is in the PAC-10. I am going to stay in my happy place for as long as I can.

[SeattleUte]

That's very generous of you. Of course, if we Mormon-ish BYU fans weren't so well-trained to be nice to others we would have told you to *%%# off a long time ago and pulled the plug on your musings. Well, in addition to being nice it is also becasue your rants are amusing, but you get the idea.

Btw, if you really think that BYU fans care more about sports than fans of other schools, you haven't met fans of many other schools. Maybe Babs can contribute on this thought when she has a chance. Don't mistakenly think that the Utes or the Supersonics are typical. After all, the Sonics didnt leave becaseu the fans were so rabid.

you call this nice?

[LiveCoug]

3B, sorry, but I think BYU's transgressions are very serious. It's not your fault, though. I think you're probably ill at ease with them.

I love it! You seriously are fantastic.

[creekster]

you call this nice?

No worse than saying a fan base is comically ridiculous.

ANd yes, it's pretty nice. Htere weren't many typos at all.

[PaloAltoCougar]

3B, sorry, but I think BYU's transgressions are very serious....

As most of us either participate in, or actively support, one or both of the organizations you find so reprehensible, and in view of your abject failure to dissuade us, your ongoing fraternization with people of such low character constitutes a level of tolerance, even support, that others would find morally irresponsible. I'm sure 99.4% of the world's ethicists would agree with me.

That said, I'm happy to have you aboard, even though your affiliation with us will surely be regarded by historians as a grievous shortcoming.

[myboynoah]

Anyway, as Ute fan I'd just like to say how happy I am that Utah is in the PAC-10. I am going to stay in my happy place for as long as I can.

I admire your efforts to make discussions of Utah athletics about Utah athletics. But even now, they all turn to discussing BYU and Utah's position relative to BYU. Good luck in your quest.

[Surfah]

One thing that the past two months have clarified and confirmed is that there isn't a fan base or group of alumni as football- or sportscentric as BYU. To you guys it's all about sports. I read the other day a BYU fan quoted Fehldberg saying BYU almost gave up sports, and this guy said, "Can you imagine how our lives would have changed?" This seemed to me a comically ridiculous and sad statement from a fan about a spectator sports team. I used to have courtside seats at the Sonics; they left Seattle; it didn't affect my life in any way but trivial ways.

BYU may weasel your way into the Big 12, but it'll still be disrespected in ways that matter most--except to BYU fans, it seems.

Do you know what due diligence is?

You kill me. Was it that long ago that you said this?

I promise you that if the Big 12 surprises me and invites BYU you won't hear me questioning the Big 12's judgment. I'm trained to defer to the specialists, which is why I never question Whit's choice of starting quarterback for example.

And BTW, your rants on CG about the Sonics moving to OKC contradict your statement that the move didn't affect you.