The PAC 10 expansion groundswell

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  • Solon
    Lost in the flood
    • Nov 2008
    • 5747

    #2656
    Originally posted by Surfah View Post
    LOL. And nothing of Top Ute's prophecy? Rape and pillage are strong words.
    There are lots of false prophets out there too.

    Do you really believe that BYU athletics are about to be irrelevant?
    In all seriousness and, this is just my opinion (I have to be careful here because I don't want to inflame or sound like I'm trolling, because I'm not), I think the byu is going to have real trouble staying competitive in athletics. I think 30 years from now we'll see this as a turning-point. Of course, a lot of things can and will change, but I think this decision is pretty solid indication of how the rest of the US views the byu. As just or unjust as that might be.
    "More crazy people to Provo go than to any other town in the state."
    -- Iron County Record. 23 August, 1912. (http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lc...23/ed-1/seq-4/)

    Comment

    • Flystripper
      Degenerate Gambler
      • Nov 2008
      • 14089

      #2657
      Originally posted by Solon View Post
      There are lots of false prophets out there too.



      In all seriousness and, this is just my opinion (I have to be careful here because I don't want to inflame or sound like I'm trolling, because I'm not), I think the byu is going to have real trouble staying competitive in athletics. I think 30 years from now we'll see this as a turning-point. Of course, a lot of things can and will change, but I think this decision is pretty solid indication of how the rest of the US views the byu. As just or unjust as that might be.
      Other than the rivalry game why would Utah in the Pac10 have any influence on whether BYU is competitive in 30 years? BYU may be where you think they will be in 30 years, but it will have nothing to do with Utah being in the Pac10. If conference consolidation continues and BYU is the only school still left out, then I can see your point.

      As it stands now, not much has changed for BYU other than its rival has left for greener pastures. The MWC is still the same conference it was previously.
      Dyslexics are teople poo...

      Comment

      • Surfah
        Where's Wallace?
        • Nov 2008
        • 33726

        #2658
        Originally posted by Solon View Post
        In all seriousness and, this is just my opinion (I have to be careful here because I don't want to inflame or sound like I'm trolling, because I'm not), I think the byu is going to have real trouble staying competitive in athletics. I think 30 years from now we'll see this as a turning-point. Of course, a lot of things can and will change, but I think this decision is pretty solid indication of how the rest of the US views the byu. As just or unjust as that might be.
        I don't think you're necessarily off with this assessment. But I think you're wrong that this is BYU's issue alone. I think what you've stated can be and is applicable to probably 75% of collegiate athletic programs.

        30 years from now college athletics will hardly resemble what they do today.
        "Nobody listens to Turtle."
        -Turtle
        sigpic

        Comment

        • Top Ute
          Junior Member
          • May 2010
          • 2194

          #2659
          Originally posted by Surfah View Post
          Probably. But then again I have this feeling your definiton of rape and pillage will mean 8 wins. So maybe not.
          One goofy comment deserves another.

          Comment

          • Surfah
            Where's Wallace?
            • Nov 2008
            • 33726

            #2660
            Originally posted by Top Ute View Post
            One goofy comment deserves another.
            Nice back pedal. You should own your goofy comments. SU is the king of that. I marvel at how he can post his garbage without so much as flinching.
            "Nobody listens to Turtle."
            -Turtle
            sigpic

            Comment

            • LA Ute
              Receiver of Memory
              • Nov 2008
              • 19512

              #2661
              Originally posted by Surfah View Post
              30 years from now college athletics will hardly resemble what they do today.
              I hope you are wrong but I fear you are right.
              “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
              ― W.H. Auden


              "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
              -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


              "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
              --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

              Comment

              • LA Ute
                Receiver of Memory
                • Nov 2008
                • 19512

                #2662
                Originally posted by Ted Nugent View Post
                I get a server error:
                Something was changed. It worked when I started - it came from Ted Miller's blog:



                I'll see if I can find the link again. This is YOhio's work, I suspect.

                (EDIT: Actually it looks like the PAC10 killed the link so they can do a big rollout tomorrow. Miller must have jumped the gun.)
                Last edited by LA Ute; 07-26-2010, 12:06 PM.
                “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
                ― W.H. Auden


                "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
                -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


                "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
                --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

                Comment

                • Surfah
                  Where's Wallace?
                  • Nov 2008
                  • 33726

                  #2663
                  Originally posted by LA Ute View Post
                  I hope you are wrong but I fear you are right.
                  Me too.
                  "Nobody listens to Turtle."
                  -Turtle
                  sigpic

                  Comment

                  • LA Ute
                    Receiver of Memory
                    • Nov 2008
                    • 19512

                    #2664
                    Originally posted by Flystripper View Post
                    Other than the rivalry game why would Utah in the Pac10 have any influence on whether BYU is competitive in 30 years?
                    It's all about cosmic forces. BYU will have lost its yin, and will now be just a lonely yang in the MWC. Utah, OTOH, will find a new yang in Colorado, which is located in a place where a lot of people actually buy Chinese philosophy.
                    “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
                    ― W.H. Auden


                    "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
                    -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


                    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
                    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

                    Comment

                    • beelzebabette
                      Golf & Cubs Disrespecter
                      • Nov 2008
                      • 2907

                      #2665
                      Originally posted by LA Ute View Post
                      It's all about cosmic forces. BYU will have lost its yin, and will now be just a lonely yang in the MWC. Utah, OTOH, will find a new yang in Colorado, which is located in a place where a lot of people actually buy Chinese philosophy.
                      [YOUTUBE]2EwViQxSJJQ[/YOUTUBE]

                      Comment

                      • SeattleUte
                        Faith crisis consultant
                        • Nov 2008
                        • 20837

                        #2666
                        Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                        LOL.

                        Look at you know. Telling me that I should defer to the authorities and their greater judgment and wisdom. More irony.
                        There's a difference between deferring to experts and being the the thrall of a cult figure.
                        When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

                        --Jonathan Swift

                        Comment

                        • Portland Ute
                          Junior Member
                          • Dec 2008
                          • 5647

                          #2667
                          Originally posted by Flystripper View Post
                          Other than the rivalry game why would Utah in the Pac10 have any influence on whether BYU is competitive in 30 years? BYU may be where you think they will be in 30 years, but it will have nothing to do with Utah being in the Pac10. If conference consolidation continues and BYU is the only school still left out, then I can see your point.

                          As it stands now, not much has changed for BYU other than its rival has left for greener pastures. The MWC is still the same conference it was previously.
                          Agreed.

                          Comment

                          • wally
                            <><><><><><><><>
                            • Jun 2010
                            • 4137

                            #2668
                            Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
                            Do you know what due dilligence is? Do you think you know more than people who did that for the Pac? I promise you that if the Big 12 surprises me and invites BYU you won't hear me questioning the Big 12's judgment. I'm trained to defer to the specialists, which is why I never question Whit's choice of starting quarterback for example. Maybe engineers are different.
                            Of course we’re different. Engineers, like economists, only care about end results. Unfortunately nobody ever takes us seriously. I blame the pocket protectors and plaid clothing.

                            I do think that the PAC-10 has assumed more risk in this venture than Utah has. As a Ute fan I feel sort of like when my wife agreed to marry me.

                            Comment

                            • Solon
                              Lost in the flood
                              • Nov 2008
                              • 5747

                              #2669
                              Originally posted by Flystripper View Post
                              Other than the rivalry game why would Utah in the Pac10 have any influence on whether BYU is competitive in 30 years? BYU may be where you think they will be in 30 years, but it will have nothing to do with Utah being in the Pac10. If conference consolidation continues and BYU is the only school still left out, then I can see your point.

                              As it stands now, not much has changed for BYU other than its rival has left for greener pastures. The MWC is still the same conference it was previously.
                              Sure. I think that Utah going to another conference is a symptom of the byu's problems. Not the problem in itself. I think that the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer (in college football - the sport that drives the bus). What I think we've seen this offseason is how other schools view the byu and its inextricable involvement with LDS issues. Based on athletics alone, the byu shouldn't be considered one of the "poor" teams, but the LDS-related issues (academic freedom, liberalism, social issues, etc.) are only going to make the gulf wider in the future, IMO.

                              The byu will continue to have success in the mwc and against whatever teams it plays from other conferences, but - in my mind, at least - it has now become clearer than ever that the byu will forever be an outsider, or at least even more marginalized in comparison with its peer institutions.

                              So, the byu can win all its games every year in every sport, but they're going to have to address some fundamental issues of their university and academic culture if they are going to gain acceptance from peer institutions. I doubt the byu will cave on those issues.

                              That's why I think this is a watershed moment for the byu and its athletic programs. As the rich schools get more advantages at the expense of the poorer schools, the byu will struggle to maintain both its religiously based ideals and its athletic competitiveness.
                              "More crazy people to Provo go than to any other town in the state."
                              -- Iron County Record. 23 August, 1912. (http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lc...23/ed-1/seq-4/)

                              Comment

                              • Flystripper
                                Degenerate Gambler
                                • Nov 2008
                                • 14089

                                #2670
                                Originally posted by Solon View Post
                                Sure. I think that Utah going to another conference is a symptom of the byu's problems. Not the problem in itself. I think that the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer (in college football - the sport that drives the bus). What I think we've seen this offseason is how other schools view the byu and its inextricable involvement with LDS issues. Based on athletics alone, the byu shouldn't be considered one of the "poor" teams, but the LDS-related issues (academic freedom, liberalism, social issues, etc.) are only going to make the gulf wider in the future, IMO.

                                The byu will continue to have success in the mwc and against whatever teams it plays from other conferences, but - in my mind, at least - it has now become clearer than ever that the byu will forever be an outsider, or at least even more marginalized in comparison with its peer institutions.

                                So, the byu can win all its games every year in every sport, but they're going to have to address some fundamental issues of their university and academic culture if they are going to gain acceptance from peer institutions. I doubt the byu will cave on those issues.

                                That's why I think this is a watershed moment for the byu and its athletic programs. As the rich schools get more advantages at the expense of the poorer schools, the byu will struggle to maintain both its religiously based ideals and its athletic competitiveness.
                                maybe, maybe not.

                                Certainly the pac10 feels this way about BYU but as far as the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer it looks like things stayed about the same. The Pac 10 and Big 10 got a championship game. The Big 12 lost a championship game. The Pac10 will get a better TV deal but their deal was an absolute Joke. The Big 10 tv deal stays about the same. The Big 12 deal got better but they lost a championship game.

                                I think you are overstating the significance of the changes that happened this summer. Sure it was huge for Utah, but the rest of the college football landscape stayed pretty much the same. The net effect was one more championship game in college football and a new TV deal for the Pac 10.
                                Dyslexics are teople poo...

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