"You Gotta Love It Baby" Official Jazz thread

[Jacob]

Lakers and Philly are showing how to get it done. Utah can't even tank right. Destined for middle of the pack status again.

It's certainly a good and bad thing. The good thing for the Jazz, is they have a core group with a future. The Lakers don't. And philly doesn't, at least not without Noel. They need to win big in the draft (or in free agency) or they will be really bad for a long time. The Jazz don't actually get much worse on paper by trading away the guys we'd like to trade away. Except I think they really do get much worse if you don't replace the guys with competent NBA players. But the same thing could be accomplished by simply benching the guys you aren't going to re-sign i.e. Jefferson and maybe Williams. That makes the Jazz worse, IMO. The only other way to get as bad as Philly or LA is to give even fewer minutes to the guys we want to see play major minutes. So, what's the solution? Only injuries or the front office instructing Corbin not to play his best players.

Then again, the Jazz may be able to save a million by buying out Jefferson and/or Williams and allowing them to sign with a different team.

It also seems that the most convenient injury, for losing, would be to Trey Burke, since his replacement (Lucas) is the lowest level player compared to the replacement for any other player. This is probably so no matter how bad Burke may look in any given game. Let's hope they continue to baby Favors and let his "injury" heal completely before Hayward twists his ankle, etc.

[Jacob]

More valuable asset? Gobert or Kanter?

Is it Kanter in a landslide and I'm just crazy for thinking its close? Both are the same age. Kanter has to be signed for big money after next season, Gobert is paid next to nothing for the next 3. Obviously Gobert is a liability on offense.

If the Jazz end up with Randle on draft day, they are moving Kanter if the get a reasonable offer. Right?

Speaking of tanking. Give Gobert 20 mpg, even if he's not ready and take those minutes from Williams. Starting tonight. Continuing when Favors is back.

[Sizzle]

4th row? lol. I was on the 2nd row. I was disappointed KG didn't play more because he was the guy on the opposing team I was most looking forward to seeing up close. He was definitely the clear leader on that team, however.

I sat 3rd row in the corner by the Minnesota bench in 2002/2003 when KG was still a timber wolf. He got into it with Flip Saunders, yelling at him along the lines of "We're on the same team, I want the same thing you do" when he had a disagreement. It was pretty heated. Definitely an intense player.

Against the Pistons a year or two later in those same seats, the fans in front of us were harassing Chauncey Billups the whole game, which the Jazz were winning most if the game. Detroit made a comeback in the 4th and won going away. The last minute Chauncey came and sat in the stands with the fans who were giving him the business. It was pretty entertaining.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

More valuable asset? Gobert or Kanter?

Is it Kanter in a landslide and I'm just crazy for thinking its close? Both are the same age. Kanter has to be signed for big money after next season, Gobert is paid next to nothing for the next 3. Obviously Gobert is a liability on offense.

If the Jazz end up with Randle on draft day, they are moving Kanter if the get a reasonable offer. Right?

Speaking of tanking. Give Gobert 20 mpg, even if he's not ready and take those minutes from Williams. Starting tonight. Continuing when Favors is back.

The Jazz have to feel ecstatic about that cash trade to get Gobert. At this point, we can already say it looks like his basement is Ian Mahinmi or Brendan Haywood. And not even 12 months ago, Gobert was so raw that he couldn't even finish drills at the NBA combine. Now he's making a difference on one end of NBA games. His teammates just need to quit trying to ever throw him the ball on offense. His block of Blatche's floater attempt was really nice. Blatche is 7', and was already adjusting his shot to account for Gobert, and it still got swatted.

All that being said, Kanter still looks like someone who averages 18 and 10 if given 35 mpg and a regular role on offense, and he has looked much better on defense than he does right now.

[MarkGrace]

It's certainly a good and bad thing. The good thing for the Jazz, is they have a core group with a future. The Lakers don't. And philly doesn't, at least not without Noel. They need to win big in the draft (or in free agency) or they will be really bad for a long time. The Jazz don't actually get much worse on paper by trading away the guys we'd like to trade away. Except I think they really do get much worse if you don't replace the guys with competent NBA players. But the same thing could be accomplished by simply benching the guys you aren't going to re-sign i.e. Jefferson and maybe Williams. That makes the Jazz worse, IMO. The only other way to get as bad as Philly or LA is to give even fewer minutes to the guys we want to see play major minutes. So, what's the solution? Only injuries or the front office instructing Corbin not to play his best players.

This is where I've been with it for a while. The Jazz ending up with a top 3 pick was an absolute pipe dream just based on the strength of the core 5 guys. It seemed like a possibility with Burke out, but you'd obviously rather not see guys injured. And that kind of resolves your last question for me. You can't instruct Corbin to not play his best players, because then you've committed to retaining him at least into next year. So the only real solution is injuries, and again that's not something you really want to see. But speaking of which, what's up with Favors? Gets rest over the break and still not back?

[Jacob]

This is where I've been with it for a while. The Jazz ending up with a top 3 pick was an absolute pipe dream just based on the strength of the core 5 guys. It seemed like a possibility with Burke out, but you'd obviously rather not see guys injured. And that kind of resolves your last question for me. You can't instruct Corbin to not play his best players, because then you've committed to retaining him at least into next year. So the only real solution is injuries, and again that's not something you really want to see. But speaking of which, what's up with Favors? Gets rest over the break and still not back?

Keep Hope alive, man! If the Jazz end up with the 7th worst record, they still have a 15% chance of landing in the top 3. That's way better than a pipe dream! Right now, it's looking like 6th or 7th is most likely with an outside shot at 4th or 5th worst (or 8th). Hopefully Sacramento can win a few games. They are still trying, right?


Also, to your point on not telling Corbin who to play, that's why they buy-out Jefferson and/or Williams and save a few hundred thousand to a million.

[MarkGrace]

Keep Hope alive, man! If the Jazz end up with the 7th worst record, they still have a 15% chance of landing in the top 3. That's way better than a pipe dream! Right now, it's looking like 6th or 7th is most likely with an outside shot at 4th or 5th worst (or 8th). Hopefully Sacramento can win a few games. They are still trying, right?

I'm keeping the faith but feel like we already used our lotto luck jumping from 6th to 3rd the year we drafted Kanter.

Also, to your point on not telling Corbin who to play, that's why they buy-out Jefferson and/or Williams and save a few hundred thousand to a million.

Well I agree with your point that the only really major dent you can make is with Burke. Buyout Jefferson and I don't think you really accomplish anything on bottom line W/L.

[smokymountainrain]

A fairly interesting stat:

David Locke @Lockedonsports ·Feb 20
Over last 10 games - Alec Burks is going to the free throw line on 18% of his possessions. James Harden is 16% Durant is 15% for season

https://twitter.com/Lockedonsports

[MarkGrace]

Burks has been crushing it getting to the line. Kid is playing great.

[smokymountainrain]

Burks has been crushing it getting to the line. Kid is playing great.

IIRC, when Burks was drafted, a lot of us guessed/hoped/predicted/opined - whichever term is most appropriate - the ability to get to the FT line would be a skill that would transfer to the NBA. It's nice to see it actually happening to an extent now, though it's a fairly small sample size. We'd seen glimpses in his first two seasons, but the PT was so sporadic, it was hard to draw much from it.

[MarkGrace]

It's been there since year 1 as well if I can recall. Still can't get on sports sites to check 82games, but that was one of his skills everyone seemed to crow about his rookie year.

The guy that needs to figure out how to get to the line is Burke. He's never going to have a great fg%, so if he wants to be efficient he needs to pick it up from 3 and the line. Great way to add to your scoring efficiency if you're a 90% ft shooter is just getting more volume there. Unfortunately I don't know that he'll ever do it well. For some reason I thought he was great getting to the line at Michigan, but I looked the other day and number of attempts weren't that impressive.

[smokymountainrain]

It's been there since year 1 as well if I can recall. Still can't get on sports sites to check 82games, but that was one of his skills everyone seemed to crow about his rookie year.

The guy that needs to figure out how to get to the line is Burke. He's never going to have a great fg%, so if he wants to be efficient he needs to pick it up from 3 and the line. Great way to add to your scoring efficiency if you're a 90% ft shooter is just getting more volume there. Unfortunately I don't know that he'll ever do it well. For some reason I thought he was great getting to the line at Michigan, but I looked the other day and number of attempts weren't that impressive.

Seems to be one of those skills you either have or you don't and I guess that's the reason it often translates from college to the NBA. I agree that Burke will likely never get there, although maybe we can have some hope that he'll at least get better, perhaps to a respectable number of FT attempts for a PG.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

It's been there since year 1 as well if I can recall. Still can't get on sports sites to check 82games, but that was one of his skills everyone seemed to crow about his rookie year.

The guy that needs to figure out how to get to the line is Burke. He's never going to have a great fg%, so if he wants to be efficient he needs to pick it up from 3 and the line. Great way to add to your scoring efficiency if you're a 90% ft shooter is just getting more volume there. Unfortunately I don't know that he'll ever do it well. For some reason I thought he was great getting to the line at Michigan, but I looked the other day and number of attempts weren't that impressive.

What are the early opinions on Burke now that he's played half of an NBA season?

Shooting has been atrocious. But he did miss camp, and was playing with his fingers taped for a while. He runs an offense better than John Lucas. Great FT shooter, but doesn't get to the line to have it matter. Solid rebounder for size and athleticism, but likely just means he hangs around the paint more after a shot goes up than some PGs. He's kept his turnovers down for large stretches, but he's also not really getting into the lane to create much so he shouldn't be committing turnovers.

His numbers are very similar to what Kemba Walker did as a rookie . But while Walker only shot 79% from the line, he did get 3.2 FTA/gm while playing 27 mpg. Ast% and TO% were very close. After that really disappointing rookie year, Walker bumped his PER up to 18 in year 2, just under 18 this year, and has had his TS% just under 52% each of those years. Is that who Burke is going to be? Jeff Teague had some similar numbers, but he only played 10 min as a rook and 13 in his 2nd season. Other close comps for rookie PGs that played at least 20 mpg: Brandon Jennings, Bobby Jackson, TJ Ford, Speedy Claxton.

[Jacob]

What are the early opinions on Burke now that he's played half of an NBA season?

Shooting has been atrocious. But he did miss camp, and was playing with his fingers taped for a while. He runs an offense better than John Lucas. Great FT shooter, but doesn't get to the line to have it matter. Solid rebounder for size and athleticism, but likely just means he hangs around the paint more after a shot goes up than some PGs. He's kept his turnovers down for large stretches, but he's also not really getting into the lane to create much so he shouldn't be committing turnovers.

His numbers are very similar to what Kemba Walker did as a rookie . But while Walker only shot 79% from the line, he did get 3.2 FTA/gm while playing 27 mpg. Ast% and TO% were very close. After that really disappointing rookie year, Walker bumped his PER up to 18 in year 2, just under 18 this year, and has had his TS% just under 52% each of those years. Is that who Burke is going to be? Jeff Teague had some similar numbers, but he only played 10 min as a rook and 13 in his 2nd season. Other close comps for rookie PGs that played at least 20 mpg: Brandon Jennings, Bobby Jackson, TJ Ford, Speedy Claxton.

If Burke really were the difference between the Jazz being Milwakee bad, and just Jazz bad since Burke, then Burke is probably going to be pretty good. But its probably the case that the Jazz never were quite as bad as they looked during the first dozen games of the season, so Burke isn't the real game changer. But I hope he is. Regardless, if the Jazz pick this year looks like a PG is the best player available, then they draft the PG.

[MarkGrace]

If Burke really were the difference between the Jazz being Milwakee bad, and just Jazz bad since Burke, then Burke is probably going to be pretty good. But its probably the case that the Jazz never were quite as bad as they looked during the first dozen games of the season, so Burke isn't the real game changer. But I hope he is. Regardless, if the Jazz pick this year looks like a PG is the best player available, then they draft the PG.

A big factor that you already mentioned is the backup. JLIII was so bad there's probably been an inflated idea of how much Burke changed things.