"You Gotta Love It Baby" Official Jazz thread

[smokymountainrain]

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove, but based on your post, I'm pretty sure you don't have an accurate understanding of MG's world.

Perhaps you're right. Care to enlighten me?

[Donuthole]

Perhaps you're right. Care to enlighten me?

Sure. Beyond reproach is really strong language. I submit that MG does not think Corbin is beyond reproach with respect to his handling of any of the young players on the team.

[smokymountainrain]

Sure. Beyond reproach is really strong language. I submit that MG does not think Corbin is beyond reproach with respect to his handling of any of the young players on the team.

MG seems to think Burks has become a good player, an unselfish player because Corbin has kept his minutes to a minimum thus far in his career. If Burks, playing about 27 minutes a game conistently this year had been bad, wouldn't we be saying Corbin had done the right thing over the first two years by very rarely giving him big minutes on a consistent basis?

I don't see any room for criticism of Corbin with this way of thinking. Burks sucks in year three, Corbin wins. Burks is good in year three, it's a damn good thing Corbin brought him along slowly. Seems to me, at least as it pertains to Burks development, Corbin is beyond reproach. What am I missing?

[Donuthole]

MG seems to think Burks has become a good player, an unselfish player because Corbin has kept his minutes to a minimum thus far in his career. If Burks, playing about 27 minutes a game conistently this year had been bad, wouldn't we be saying Corbin had done the right thing over the first two years by very rarely giving him big minutes on a consistent basis?

I don't see any room for criticism of Corbin with this way of thinking. Burks sucks in year three, Corbin wins. Burks is good in year three, it's a damn good thing Corbin brought him along slowly. Seems to me, at least as it pertains to Burks development, Corbin is beyond reproach. What am I missing?

Beyond reproach means there is absolutely no criticism of Corbin's handling of Burks in any situation in his first 2.75 years in the league. I do not believe MG has taken such a strong defense of Corbin. Largely beyond reproach? Sure. Beyond reproach? No.

[smokymountainrain]

Beyond reproach means there is absolutely no criticism of Corbin's handling of Burks in any situation in his first 2.75 years in the league. I do not believe MG has taken such a strong defense of Corbin. Largely beyond reproach? Sure. Beyond reproach? No.

Fair enough, but this is the MG post that spurred this discussion

Maybe if we played Burks 36 mpg last year and 38 mpg this year we could get back the guy from year 1 that never realized he was on the floor with four other guys.

Based on this post, I didn't think it was necessary to specify we were talking about Corbin being beyond reproach as it relates to his handling of Burks playing time. Having said that, I understand how particular you are about you are about this stuff (and I love that about you, DH!), so I will admit defeat on this point. MG probably doesn't think Corbin is beyond reproach in terms of how he's handled Burks in every aspect of his development.

[wapiti]

Fair enough, but this is the MG post that spurred this discussion



Based on this post, I didn't think it was necessary to specify we were talking about Corbin being beyond reproach as it relates to his handling of Burks playing time. Having said that, I understand how particular you are about you are about this stuff (and I love that about you, DH!), so I will admit defeat on this point. MG probably doesn't think Corbin is beyond reproach in terms of how he's handled Burks in every aspect of his development.

The problem with your position is you don't have a very strong argument. Burks is 22 years old and seems to developing into they player we all hoped he would be when the Jazz drafted him. We don't know what we would have if he had played more minutes earlier in his career. But we do know that we have a good and getting better player. It's hard to argue with the results.

[smokymountainrain]

The problem with your position is you don't have a very strong argument. Burks is 22 years old and seems to developing into they player we all hoped he would be when the Jazz drafted him. We don't know what we would have if he had played more minutes earlier in his career. But we do know that we have a good and getting better player. It's hard to argue with the results.

Right. That was my point above. If Burks sucks in year three, it's obvious why Corbin wasn't playing him in his first two years - he was doing the right thing by sitting a shitty player. If Burks is good in year three, well what do you know - it worked!

Nevermind the fact that Burks was one of the best freshmen - arguably the best - in the country when he was 18. As a 19 year old sophomore was once again one of the best players in the country. He drafted in the lottery as a 19 year old prototypical SG with supreme confidence and skill and athleticism to spare. Yet without all those DNP-CDs in his first two years he would have been a steaming pile of shit. Thanks, Corbin!

[Blueintheface]

I wonder what Burks is going to get paid?

[Jacob]

If there were a redo of the 2011 draft how does top of the draft go?
http://www.nbadraft.net/nba_final_draft/2011

Here's what my draft board would look like drafting "best player available":

Irving
Leonard
Parsons
Vucevic
Kemba
Markeiff Morris
Burks
Klay Thompson
Marcus Morris
Knight
Faried
Kanter
Valanciunas
Tristan Thompson
Jackson
Derrick Williams
Thomas

By my rating only three guys would fall out of lottery range, Vesely, Biyombo, and Jimmer. Only Leonard, Parsons, Jackson, and Thomas played their way into that range. Two more years and we'll likely have a complete read on this class. So far Irving is the only can't miss franchise changer.

Unfortunately for Utah, the jury is still out on Kanter and Burks. Burks looks like he may move up the board while Kanter has the potential to fall of it. Looks like there were many better options than Kanter at #3.

Most people are thinking Valanciunus is going to be better than Kanter. They are probably right. He goes in the top 5.

[MarkGrace]

Most people are thinking Valanciunus is going to be better than Kanter. They are probably right. He goes in the top 5.

Not sure why. They have similar production at the same age, and I don't think Jonas has physical attributes so superior that they suggest more upside.

[wapiti]

Not sure why. They have similar production at the same age, and I don't think Jonas has physical attributes so superior that they suggest more upside.

They look like the same player to me but I'm not that familiar with Jonas. That's why I had them listed next to each other.

[Jacob]

Not sure why. They have similar production at the same age, and I don't think Jonas has physical attributes so superior that they suggest more upside.

I'm guessing it is defense. Jonus has a better defensive rating, significantly higher win share. I have only watched one or two Toronto games, so I'm only going off the stats and comments I've heard.

[MarkGrace]

I'm guessing it is defense. Jonus has a better defensive rating, significantly higher win share. I have only watched one or two Toronto games, so I'm only going off the stats and comments I've heard.

I checked 82games right before that post and both have bad defensive numbers.

[Jacob]

I checked 82games right before that post and both have bad defensive numbers.

Drtg on bball reference is 103 compared to 110 for Kanter. Neither good, but a significant difference. Also, both are 21, whereas Vucevic is 23, so I'm not sure I'd rate them much lower, if at all, than him. I'm also not arguing that Jonas as a lot better than Enes. You are, after all, regularly hapring on Enes' poor defense. Even on 82games, while Jonas doesn't look good, Enes looks quite a bit worse.

[MarkGrace]

Drtg on bball reference is 103 compared to 110 for Kanter. Neither good, but a significant difference. Also, both are 21, whereas Vucevic is 23, so I'm not sure I'd rate them much lower, if at all, than him. I'm also not arguing that Jonas as a lot better than Enes. You are, after all, regularly hapring on Enes' poor defense. Even on 82games, while Jonas doesn't look good, Enes looks quite a bit worse.

Enes has been terrible on D and his numbers reflect that. His 82games numbers were awesome last year, so I'm not sure what to make of that. Dude just looks lost and disinterested on the defensive end this year. He also plays what is arguably the most important position to a defensive unit, which is why I have a hard time blaming Corbin for jerking him out every time he does something moronic on that end (especially when considering the fact that it has been conveyed to Corbin he's being evaluated on how the team performs defensively).