"You Gotta Love It Baby" Official Jazz thread

[falafel]

He scored 50 in a game the other night. I also read that he was averaging 6.8 apg, which is crazy high under European rules.

Can you explain this?

[MarkGrace]

Can you explain this?

ha. I'm not certain that I can. I don't know if Europe has a different rule, or just a stricter interpretation of the same rule. It's probably the latter.

Anyway, in the NBA an assist is a pass that leads to a basket. That's a fairly open definition, so there's a degree of subjectivity from the scorekeeper that goes into it. That's why you used to always hear about Stockton getting home cooking (though his home vs. road splits never showed a noteworthy difference).

But when does that chain of a pass ending in a basket end? The rule used to say that if the player receiving the ball took a dribble, there was no assist. But that was done away with somewhere along the way. So how many dribbles breaks it now? Or when the ball is passed into the post, how long can a guy hold it before the chain is broken? How many moves can he make? Tony Parker has joked in the past that Duncan is so deliberate holding the ball on the block that he doesn't get credit for assists where similar entry passes to a big do.

So these are all things the scorekeeper basically has to rule on before he credits a pass with an assist. My impression of Europe is that they're a lot stricter with the rule. If the guy catches and shoots...assist. If he catches and lays it in...assist. But that stuff inbetween where a guy would get an assist in the NBA doesn't happen in Europe.

[smokymountainrain]

ha. I'm not certain that I can. I don't know if Europe has a different rule, or just a stricter interpretation of the same rule. It's probably the latter.

Anyway, in the NBA an assist is a pass that leads to a basket. That's a fairly open definition, so there's a degree of subjectivity from the scorekeeper that goes into it. That's why you used to always hear about Stockton getting home cooking (though his home vs. road splits never showed a noteworthy difference).

But when does that chain of a pass ending in a basket end? The rule used to say that if the player receiving the ball took a dribble, there was no assist. But that was done away with somewhere along the way. So how many dribbles breaks it now? Or when the ball is passed into the post, how long can a guy hold it before the chain is broken? How many moves can he make? Tony Parker has joked in the past that Duncan is so deliberate holding the ball on the block that he doesn't get credit for assists where similar entry passes to a big do.

So these are all things the scorekeeper basically has to rule on before he credits a pass with an assist. My impression of Europe is that they're a lot stricter with the rule. If the guy catches and shoots...assist. If he catches and lays it in...assist. But that stuff inbetween where a guy would get an assist in the NBA doesn't happen in Europe.

bottom line... in my time of looking at players and stats in europe, it's extremely rare to see a guy average as much as 6.8 assists in a season. most good pgs average about 4-5. i think it's due to the more strict statkeeping as well as less points being scored in games. euro games are more like college games in terms of points scored.

[MarkGrace]

You hear rumors about Sap and Pacers, and somehow this should have registered on me.

It's worth noting that former Portland general manager Kevin Pritchard was hired as the Pacers' GM in July.

[MarkGrace]

So Deron played 15 games in Turkey and averaged 21.8/6.5.

Let it be known that no one shall ever be issued the number 8 jersey for Beşiktaş, in tribute to the weeks and weeks of service of one Deron Williams. Hailed as a conquering hero when he arrived this summer, the end of the NBA lockout forced Williams to bid farewell to his Turkish team. He remains the biggest name ever to play in a basketball-mad country, a national legend, Atatürk with a crossover.

Beşiktaş honored Williams before their game today, and raised his jersey to the rafters. Williams averaged 21.8 PPG and 6.5 APG in his time in Istanbul, and says he hopes to return one day.

http://deadspin.com/5863513/

[Jacob]

I really don't know what Locke's offensivre rankings mean, but this is funny:

Lockedonsports David Locke
Locke Offenisve Rankings - 0 is replacement level 10 is league average 20 is high level starter (top 50 players) 30= elite (10 players)

Lockedonsports David Locke
2010-11 Jazz Ratings - Millsap (22), Kirilenko (14) Hayward (14) Haris (13) Jefferson (9), Favors (9) Raja (4), CJ (2) Watson (0) Price (-13

Jefferson is below average? But Price at -13 sounds just about right. Main point is that the Jazz are terrible, I guess.

[Blueintheface]

So apparently there are teams interested in AK, at least according to local radio. If true, I hope that O'Conner offers him the midlevel or somewhere in that range and lets him get overpaid elsewhere. While AK is the last tie to the past on this team, and that is valued in this organization, he is not worth than $5MM-$6MM despite David Locke's constant pleading on the subject.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

CJ says he wants to start. And that he can be an all-star. And that he's lost fifteen pounds. We've never heard this before.

He must have been really fat last year if he's down fifteen lbs.

[MarkGrace]

CJ says he wants to start. And that he can be an all-star. And that he's lost fifteen pounds. We've never heard this before.

He must have been really fat last year if he's down fifteen lbs.

He went from "seriously needs to gain weight" to "seriously needs to lose weight" faster than any guy I can remember.

[Jacob]

So apparently there are teams interested in AK, at least according to local radio. If true, I hope that O'Conner offers him the midlevel or somewhere in that range and lets him get overpaid elsewhere. While AK is the last tie to the past on this team, and that is valued in this organization, he is not worth than $5MM-$6MM despite David Locke's constant pleading on the subject.

He is, without a doubt, worth 6m per year, IMO. I'd offer him that, which is more than the MLE, so most teams won't be able to offer more. But NJ can. OTOH, Deron and AK don't like each other, so I wouldn't look for that to happen even if their Russian owner is biased toward his comrade.

CJ says he wants to start. And that he can be an all-star. And that he's lost fifteen pounds. We've never heard this before.

He must have been really fat last year if he's down fifteen lbs.

He definitely had 15 pounds to lose. He's never been in elite shape, IMO. But I'm not believing it this time. I wanted to believe it last time. Now I don't really care. I don't think he'll ever be starter quality, let alone all-star.

[Jacob]

As I understand amnesty, here's what would happen if Jazz waived memo.

1) any team with room under the cap can pick him up for his full salary; if not then
2) any team with room under the cap can place a blind bid to acquire Memo. Higest bid gets him
3) highest bidder will offset Jazz payments to Memo by the amount of their bid.

Number 1) is not going to happen. But several teams will be interested in Memo for cheap, IMO. You could see a team bid up to 5M for Memo. If a team bid 5m, Jazz would only have to pay him $5, and would spread it over a couple of years. They would then be 9m under the cap and could make a legit offer to Stuckey, Afflalo, Prince, Chandler, etc.

If the Jazz don't think they'll be able to trade Memo for a valuable player this year, then they should waive him under amnesty.

[MarkGrace]

He definitely had 15 pounds to lose. He's never been in elite shape, IMO. But I'm not believing it this time. I wanted to believe it last time. Now I don't really care. I don't think he'll ever be starter quality, let alone all-star.

I think CJ showed last year that you can tell pretty early whether he has it for the night or not. There were times when he could put up points quicker than almost anyone else on the team, but you could usually tell early on whether or not it was one of those nights. When it's not, he gives you nothing else, really. So I think with that in mind he can be a solid bench player, he just needs the JR Smith treatment. If he's clearly off that night, just put him back to the pine. If he's on, let him roll for a while.

[Mormon Red Death]

As I understand amnesty, here's what would happen if Jazz waived memo.

1) any team with room under the cap can pick him up for his full salary; if not then
2) any team with room under the cap can place a blind bid to acquire Memo. Higest bid gets him
3) highest bidder will offset Jazz payments to Memo by the amount of their bid.

Number 1) is not going to happen. But several teams will be interested in Memo for cheap, IMO. You could see a team bid up to 5M for Memo. If a team bid 5m, Jazz would only have to pay him $5, and would spread it over a couple of years. They would then be 9m under the cap and could make a legit offer to Stuckey, Afflalo, Prince, Chandler, etc.

If the Jazz don't think they'll be able to trade Memo for a valuable player this year, then they should waive him under amnesty.

once you amnesty a guy not one penny affects your salary or luxury cap.

[Jacob]

once you amnesty a guy not one penny affects your salary or luxury cap.

That is correct. I assumed everybody knew that.

[Mormon Red Death]

That is correct. I assumed everybody knew that.

from your post I thought you werent clear if it still hit the cap or not. I just wanted to clear.