"You Gotta Love It Baby" Official Jazz thread

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft...%3fyear%3d2006

Ranked 16 on Chad Ford's top 100 in 2006. He slipped and I remember being very glad when he did as he was a guy I though the Jazz should consider picking up in the 2nd half of the 1st round.

And just for fun I thought I'd look at a couple of teams to see how their 2nd rd draft picks did in the same time frame that the Jazz got Millsap and CJ. I decided just to look at a few of teh worst teams in general:
Minnesota: Chalmers and Craig Smith

Based on this quick analysis, I'm sticking with my claim that the Jazz haven't been especially adept at drafting in the 2nd round, at least since 2004. I don't think they've been particularly bad either. But I, or a monkey, probably could have done just about as well.

The 2nd round has always been a crap shoot, but the early picks of the 2nd round are always valuable because they have as high a success rate as the end of the 1st, and you can pay them less.
Clippers: DeAndre Jordan and Daniel Ewing.

I'll also ad that the Spurs drafting abilities have been over-rated now for some time. They've had some good ones, to be sure, but no great ones.

Didn't Millsap just show up fat and out of shape at the combine and that scared a bunch of teams off?

[Jacob]

Didn't Millsap just show up fat and out of shape at the combine and that scared a bunch of teams off?

Don't think so. He had 9.7% body fat at the combine. But he was from a small WAC school, is short for his position, and was mostly known for rebounding. That guy slips almost every year. Teams were scared of "tweener" 4s back then, but we've seen a lot more success recently in the league with undersized 4s.

Look at Faried. Similar college career, though more of a shot blocker. He went in the end of the 1st, but had he not been showcased in the tourney, I think he'd most likely have been a 2nd round pick.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

Don't think so. He had 9.7% body fat at the combine. But he was from a small WAC school, is short for his position, and was mostly known for rebounding. That guy slips almost every year. Teams were scared of "tweener" 4s back then, but we've seen a lot more success recently in the league with undersized 4s.

Look at Faried. Similar college career, though more of a shot blocker. He went in the end of the 1st, but had he not been showcased in the tourney, I think he'd most likely have been a 2nd round pick.

I'm almost certain that he was out of shape at the combine and didn't show very well. So I'll go searching for something to back that up. Someone that was 16th on the draft board and was the rebounder he was in college wasn't going to just drop to 47th or whatever he was just because he played for LaTech, and I don't think there were any injury concerns about him.

But maybe nobody else remembers it that way, and I've simply made it up.

[MarkGrace]

BGR, I remember that as well. He was always an undersized tweener, but teams got scared when he went to one of the invitationals (portsmouth?) and looked out of shape and didn't play well at all. I think at that point teams worried he wasn't going to translate but I remember KOC saying they felt rebounding is the skill most likely to translate from college to pro so they went with him.

You can't diminish the pick because of where he was projected. The fact of the matter is that he went fairly deep into the 2nd and is now probably one of the top 5-6 players from his draft class. By virtue of where he was drafted it clearly wasn't an obvious pick and was brilliant any way you slice it.

[Jacob]

The fact of the matter is that he went fairly deep into the 2nd and is now probably one of the top 5-6 players from his draft class. By virtue of where he was drafted it clearly wasn't an obvious pick and was brilliant any way you slice it.

I appreciate that you think I'm brilliant for thinking the pick was obvious at the time

Fact is, he was 9.7% body fat at the combine, same as Irving and Williams this year, so he was not fat and out of shape. And how many times do we hear that scouts know better than to put too much weight on a single bad workout? But this is all beside the point, as KOC deserves credit for picking a good player. But he doesn't deserve credit for picking good players more often than everybody else in the 2nd round, because it isn't true.

[Jacob]

Looking back at some old NBA Jazz draft posts from previous drafts over at CB. Some bad misses by me, no doubt, but also some really good decisions:

Example: When the Jazz were almost the clock with their pick that ended up being Almond I said: It's between Rudy Fernandez and Splitter for me. Then Fernandez apparently went off the board and I said Splitter is the obvious choice. "No more SG bench warmers."
Finally:"Almond it is. Boooo"

[smokymountainrain]

I appreciate that you think I'm brilliant for thinking the pick was obvious at the time

Fact is, he was 9.7% body fat at the combine, same as Irving and Williams this year, so he was not fat and out of shape. And how many times do we hear that scouts know better than to put too much weight on a single bad workout? But this is all beside the point, as KOC deserves credit for picking a good player. But he doesn't deserve credit for picking good players more often than everybody else in the 2nd round, because it isn't true.

Without entering the fray about whether he was a first round prospect or not, Millsap was definitely overweight at some point during the time the season ended and the draft. Now perhaps he lost a lot of it before the combine, but the weight problem may have been enough to scare teams off even if he was in decent shape at the combine. I remember being in love with Millsap as a prospect during and at the end of the college season, and then backing off entirely when he got fat and out of shape - most likely about April/May.

[Jacob]

Here's the little bit of analysis I can find on teh pick from DX:

Immediately afterwards they landed another player who was once considered a first round prospect in Paul Millsap, a move that could end up looking great if Jerry Sloan can get him to play meaner and more aggressive basketball in the next year or two, something he specializes in.

Lets just all agree that the reports of his being fat and out of shape were greatly exaggerated.

[MarkGrace]

MIAMI -- By the fifth and final day of the 2006 pre-draft camp in Orlando, most of the scouts and coaches had gone home. The Utah Jazz contingent remained, hoping for one more look at a chunky power forward nobody else seemed to want. Through the first four days of camp, Paul Millsap appeared out of shape and out of place, unable to create his shot or hold his position. But on the last day, Millsap began to assert himself, demonstrating how he led the nation in rebounding two years in a row at Louisiana Tech. The Jazz staff reasoned that Millsap was not the kind of player built for pre-draft camps, which tend to showcase shooters and drivers. He needed a system.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...7270/index.htm

Left school a year early, but somehow slipped to the middle of the second round due to concerns about his size and potential weight issues. Immediately looked like a huge steal for the Jazz, leading them to lock him up on a three year rookie contract. Dedicated himself to maximizing his conditioning-level and improved his athleticism considerably.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/...#ixzz1QaaDon5v
http://www.draftexpress.com

I'm sure you could find plenty of similar stuff as it has been talked about a lot in hindsight. And a guy could very well be fat and out of shape in relative terms at roughly 10%. It's not like that's a good number -- I think people were disappointed in both Irving and Williams conditioning to see a number like that. What do you think Paul's at now that he is in good shape? Probably somewhere around 5-6.

[Blueintheface]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...7270/index.htm


From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/...#ixzz1QaaDon5v
http://www.draftexpress.com

I'm sure you could find plenty of similar stuff as it has been talked about a lot in hindsight. And a guy could very well be fat and out of shape in relative terms at roughly 10%. It's not like that's a good number -- I think people were disappointed in both Irving and Williams conditioning to see a number like that. What do you think Paul's at now that he is in good shape? Probably somewhere around 5-6.

This proves nothing.

[Jacob]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...7270/index.htm


From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/...#ixzz1QaaDon5v
http://www.draftexpress.com

I'm sure you could find plenty of similar stuff as it has been talked about a lot in hindsight. And a guy could very well be fat and out of shape in relative terms at roughly 10%. It's not like that's a good number -- I think people were disappointed in both Irving and Williams conditioning to see a number like that. What do you think Paul's at now that he is in good shape? Probably somewhere around 5-6.

I'd bet Paul is still close to 9%. Not everybody had the body type to maintain 5-6%. It sounds like people were concerned about his body type and the potential weight issues. But at some point you just have to realize that Paul has a big ass. Its an asset. Glen Davis...now that guy was chunky. But this doesn't matter, sorry for responding yet again. Even the quote you gave said the Jazz got a steal at the time.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

I'd bet Paul is still close to 9%. Not everybody had the body type to maintain 5-6%. It sounds like people were concerned about his body type and the potential weight issues. But at some point you just have to realize that Paul has a big ass. Its an asset. Glen Davis...now that guy was chunky. But this doesn't matter, sorry for responding yet again. Even the quote you gave said the Jazz got a steal at the time.

I'm concerned about his 6'4" body type and that people still seem to believe he should be a power forward. Paul has the body of a "tweener" yeah the positions his body is between are a 2 and 3, but don't let that stop him from playing against guys 4-6 inches taller than him.

[Donuthole]

I'm concerned about his 6'4" body type and that people still seem to believe he should be a power forward. Paul has the body of a "tweener" yeah the positions his body is between are a 2 and 3, but don't let that stop him from playing against guys 4-6 inches taller than him.

You told me you gave up the hate after his game in Miami last year. I guess you lied.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

You told me you gave up the hate after his game in Miami last year. I guess you lied.

I did give up the hate, I barley even remember the details of him screwing that end of the 2OT game in March of 2010 in Miami.

You are a historical post finder, search what I've said about Milsap all along here and CB. I've been consistent in my belief he isn't an NBA PF body wise.

[Donuthole]

I did give up the hate, I barley even remember the details of him screwing that end of the 2OT game in March of 2010 in Miami.

You are a historical post finder, search what I've said about Milsap all along here and CB. I've been consistent in my belief he isn't an NBA PF body wise.

I know you have. However, your post catalog is bereft of any acknowledgement of the fact that the PF position has (d?)evolved to the point where a 6'7" PF is barely undersized anymore. And therein lies the hate.