"You Gotta Love It Baby" Official Jazz thread

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

I know I'm probably in the minority here, but I think he's done a fine job with 1st round picks. Certainly not the best in the league, but somehwere around average or better. And his draft record overall has to be better than average.

If I were to assign a point system to grade picks, the points awarded for a top 3-5 pick hit or miss would so drastically dwarf a hit or miss in the 14-25 range that his picking of Deron Williams would shed a big positive light on KOC's drafting history for me that would make it much harder to notice the missed picks. It is easier sometimes when you get a draft with several good players, but Atlanta's GM managed to screw up that draft when he had a need at PG and Williams and Paul staring him right in the face. You just can't miss when you're in the top 3 of a draft.

[UteStar]

I know I'm probably in the minority here, but I think he's done a fine job with 1st round picks. Certainly not the best in the league, but somehwere around average or better. And his draft record overall has to be better than average.

KOC gets a bad rap in regards to how 'bad' he is at drafts. When you are picking in the teens or worse every single draft, more likely than not, you won't pick an impact player. Besides San Antonio's late first round picks...most teams don't do well picking in the mid to late first round. His second round picks are among the best in the league.

[MartyFunkhouser]

well except for the vast majority of his 1st round picks being busts, and AK and Okurs contracts, I agree

AKs contract was as much on Larry H. Miller as it was on Kevin O'Connor. I agree that the Okur extension was a mistake. As for his drafting, I agree with what MG, BGRTHUMEGO, and UteStar have said about his drafting.

[Blueintheface]

AKs contract was as much on Larry H. Miller as it was on Kevin O'Connor. I agree that the Okur extension was a mistake. As for his drafting, I agree with what MG, BGRTHUMEGO, and UteStar have said about his drafting.

The timing of the extension was the biggest gaffe IMO. Unfortunately and probably not coincidentally Okur's numbers began to slide soon after, especially on the road, and that's without mentioning the damn injury. Let that be a lesson to not extend a player when no deadline is looming.

[Jacob]

KOC gets a bad rap in regards to how 'bad' he is at drafts. When you are picking in the teens or worse every single draft, more likely than not, you won't pick an impact player. Besides San Antonio's late first round picks...most teams don't do well picking in the mid to late first round. His second round picks are among the best in the league.

Utah Jazz recent 2nd round draft picks:

Jeremy Evans (exciting, played a few minutes on a bad team, probably in D league next year)
Goran Suton
Tadija Dragicevic
Ante Tomic
Kyrylo Fesenko
CJ Miles
Paul Millsap
Dee Brown
Robery Whaley

Those are all the 2nd round picks since 2004. Other than Fessenko, who has been mostly worthless, Paul MIllsap and CJ MIles are the only players that have panned out in the NBA. Millsap was a solid, but obvious pick as most scouts thought he was a 1st rounder. Still, many teams passed. CJ was a good pick.

That's 2 for his last 9. Honestly, I don't expect much more out of the 2nd round. But let's not overstate what he's accomplished. I doubt many teams have done much worse. It's possible they haven't done much better either. KOC has been about average in the draft. He didn't screw up the one obvious pick (and he couldn't have with Williams and Paul both on the board). But in most other instances, he has made bad or adequate picks, but no brilliant 1st rounders or second rounders. He has also often passed on vastly superior NBA players in the first round, as have other GMs.

[Sizzle]

Utah Jazz recent 2nd round draft picks:

Jeremy Evans (exciting, played a few minutes on a bad team, probably in D league next year)
Goran Suton
Tadija Dragicevic
Ante Tomic
Kyrylo Fesenko
CJ Miles
Paul Millsap
Dee Brown
Robery Whaley

Those are all the 2nd round picks since 2004. Other than Fessenko, who has been mostly worthless, Paul MIllsap and CJ MIles are the only players that have panned out in the NBA. Millsap was a solid, but obvious pick as most scouts thought he was a 1st rounder. Still, many teams passed. CJ was a good pick.

That's 2 for his last 9. Honestly, I don't expect much more out of the 2nd round. But let's not overstate what he's accomplished. I doubt many teams have done much worse. It's possible they haven't done much better either. KOC has been about average in the draft. He didn't screw up the one obvious pick (and he couldn't have with Williams and Paul both on the board). But in most other instances, he has made bad or adequate picks, but no brilliant 1st rounders or second rounders. He has also often passed on vastly superior NBA players in the first round, as have other GMs.

Fes wasn't a bad pick. He's a big body with upside. There is no question he can impact a game defensively when he is in there. Now, the fact that he doesn't fully have his head on straight and hasn't grown up, I can't fault KOC for that.

Tomic and Tadija both were picked when the Jazz had a "full" roster. Picking two Euros (one who is highly touted) is not a fail either. Whether or not Tomic pans out, the fact that we own his rights when we likely wouldn't have been able to keep a player is a smart pick.

Yes, he missed on others. But finding a couple of guys in the mid to late 2nd round who are still around is a win IMO.

[UteStar]

Utah Jazz recent 2nd round draft picks:

Jeremy Evans (exciting, played a few minutes on a bad team, probably in D league next year)
Goran Suton
Tadija Dragicevic
Ante Tomic
Kyrylo Fesenko
CJ Miles
Paul Millsap
Dee Brown
Robery Whaley

Those are all the 2nd round picks since 2004. Other than Fessenko, who has been mostly worthless, Paul MIllsap and CJ MIles are the only players that have panned out in the NBA. Millsap was a solid, but obvious pick as most scouts thought he was a 1st rounder. Still, many teams passed. CJ was a good pick.

That's 2 for his last 9. Honestly, I don't expect much more out of the 2nd round. But let's not overstate what he's accomplished. I doubt many teams have done much worse. It's possible they haven't done much better either. KOC has been about average in the draft. He didn't screw up the one obvious pick (and he couldn't have with Williams and Paul both on the board). But in most other instances, he has made bad or adequate picks, but no brilliant 1st rounders or second rounders. He has also often passed on vastly superior NBA players in the first round, as have other GMs.

Milsap was an obvious 1st round pick? When did that happen? He wasn't projected 1st round by anyone. On top of that, he was picked #47 overall which means that he was such an obvious pick 16 teams passed on him in the 2nd round.

I will say that the jazz 2nd round selections are definitely above average compared with the rest of the league.

[San Juan Sun]

Milsap was an obvious 1st round pick? When did that happen? He wasn't projected 1st round by anyone. On top of that, he was picked #47 overall which means that he was such an obvious pick 16 teams passed on him in the 2nd round.

I will say that the jazz 2nd round selections are definitely above average compared with the rest of the league.

Agreed. Two get two starters/major role players in 5 years worth of second round draft picks is pretty good.

The truth is, the Jazz have had crappy draft picks with the exceptions of Williams and Kanter over the last 10 years. And throwing in SLC as a not not desireable free agent destination, and I think we've been very lucky/good at putting a competitive team on the court. And the future is looking good.

[Donuthole]

I realize i'm totally irrational, but that's part of being a fan, right? In the back of my mind i'm still secretly hoping that the DWill trade was made with a handshake agreement that he would return to Utah when his present contract expires--that it was all an elaborate scheme by Deron and KOC to oust Sloan while simultaneously acquiring the pieces with which to surround Deron on a title contender. I can almost hear KOC reminding Deron to act really surprised to the media, like he was traded without even a courtesy phone call.

I'll wake up eventually, but it's fun to pretend.

[smokymountainrain]

I realize i'm totally irrational, but that's part of being a fan, right? In the back of my mind i'm still secretly hoping that the DWill trade was made with a handshake agreement that he would return to Utah when his present contract expires--that it was all an elaborate scheme by Deron and KOC to oust Sloan while simultaneously acquiring the pieces with which to surround Deron on a title contender. I can almost hear KOC reminding Deron to act really surprised to the media, like he was traded without even a courtesy phone call.

I'll wake up eventually, but it's fun to pretend.

Either I'm not smart enough, creative enough or delusional to the point I would think of something like that, but damn, now you've got me thinking about it. Don't get me wrong, there's no chance in hell this would be the case, but it's fun to imagine the possibilities.

I mentioned the possibility of Nash above (I'm being completely ignored, btw, and it's starting to make me feel bad), but Williams with this young team would be incredible.

[MarkGrace]

Either I'm not smart enough, creative enough or delusional to the point I would think of something like that, but damn, now you've got me thinking about it. Don't get me wrong, there's no chance in hell this would be the case, but it's fun to imagine the possibilities.

I mentioned the possibility of Nash above (I'm being completely ignored, btw, and it's starting to make me feel bad), but Williams with this young team would be incredible.

I've thought about it plenty as well. If it was anything orchestrated, the league would absolutely crush the Jazz. But I have no idea how you would prove anything like that. There were rumors that prior to the trade Deron was privately saying he would really only consider four teams: Lakers, Jazz, Magic and Mavs. I don't know if he would still consider the Jazz after the way the trade went down, but I think that was more the fault of Jersey than the Jazz leaking the trade before the players could be notified.

There were also rumors that the Jazz were looking into a deal for Nash as a one-year rental. He could give them a good year next year, and then has his 12mm coming off the books for the Jazz to make a run at Deron in '12.

Total pipe dream, but fun to think about.

[Jacob]

Milsap was an obvious 1st round pick? When did that happen? He wasn't projected 1st round by anyone. On top of that, he was picked #47 overall which means that he was such an obvious pick 16 teams passed on him in the 2nd round.

I will say that the jazz 2nd round selections are definitely above average compared with the rest of the league.

He was projected as a first rounder. So was dejuan blair. Happens all the time. But i gave him credit for the pick.
As for the rest of the league, have you actually made the comparison? I havent.

[San Juan Sun]

He was projected as a first rounder.

Link please? IIRC, Millsap did not slide out of the first round. Everyone liked the pick in the 2nd round, but he was not considered a first rounder.

[Sizzle]

Link please? IIRC, Millsap did not slide out of the first round. Everyone liked the pick in the 2nd round, but he was not considered a first rounder.

Some sites had him projected as a late first rounder.

According to Chad Ford, he was the 16th best prospect in the draft in 2006, and was a late first to early 2nd rounder:

[ame="http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft/results/top100/_/year/2006"]Chad Ford's Top 100 - ESPN[/ame]

[Jacob]

Link please? IIRC, Millsap did not slide out of the first round. Everyone liked the pick in the 2nd round, but he was not considered a first rounder.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft...%3fyear%3d2006

Ranked 16 on Chad Ford's top 100 in 2006. He slipped and I remember being very glad when he did as he was a guy I though the Jazz should consider picking up in the 2nd half of the 1st round.

And just for fun I thought I'd look at a couple of teams to see how their 2nd rd draft picks did in the same time frame that the Jazz got Millsap and CJ. I decided just to look at a few of teh worst teams in general:
Minnesota: Chalmers and Craig Smith

Based on this quick analysis, I'm sticking with my claim that the Jazz haven't been especially adept at drafting in the 2nd round, at least since 2004. I don't think they've been particularly bad either. But I, or a monkey, probably could have done just about as well.

The 2nd round has always been a crap shoot, but the early picks of the 2nd round are always valuable because they have as high a success rate as the end of the 1st, and you can pay them less.
Clippers: DeAndre Jordan and Daniel Ewing.

I'll also ad that the Spurs drafting abilities have been over-rated now for some time. They've had some good ones, to be sure, but no great ones.