"You Gotta Love It Baby" Official Jazz thread

[Jacob]

Well Bird wasn't a very good defender at all, but I'd take him. Durant has better footspeed than either Bird or Jabari and has those great arms for defense. I'd take him as well. I'd also take Jabari, which I think I said in the first post. I just worry that the team's defensive upside would be good enough. Obviously you could play with pieces around them and change coaches and schemes, but that group of 6 doesn't get me very excited just on their own defensive potential. Could potentially be a hell of an offensive squad, however.

We are just having fun here, right? How do you figure Durant has good foot speed? How do you measure it? The NBA subjects draftees to tests to measure foot speed, and, based upon that test, Kevin Durant had the slowest foot speed ever recorded by a small forward drafted in the 1st round. And I agree, he is a good defender (long arms, anticipation, positioning, etc). Foot speed doesn't account for everything or Durant would be terrible. The NBA isn't filled with the best athletes, just the best basketball players. If Jabari is the bests basketball player, he should go #1 regardless of foot speed, which I assure you will measure better than Kevin Durant's. And it should be entirely ignored.

[MarkGrace]

We are just having fun here, right? How do you figure Durant has good foot speed? How do you measure it? The NBA subjects draftees to tests to measure foot speed, and, based upon that test, Kevin Durant had the slowest foot speed ever recorded by a small forward drafted in the 1st round. And I agree, he is a good defender (long arms, anticipation, positioning, etc). Foot speed doesn't account for everything or Durant would be terrible. The NBA isn't filled with the best athletes, just the best basketball players. If Jabari is the bests basketball player, he should go #1 regardless of foot speed, which I assure you will measure better than Kevin Durant's. And it should be entirely ignored.

I don't think there's a good measure. And I don't think the predraft agility drill does a very good job of measuring the lateral footspeed needed for defense (and I don't know anybody that does). I also didn't say Durant has good footspeed for defense, just better than Bird and Jabari (which I don't think is saying much). He also of course has much better length than either as well, which helps him. I also didn't say he's a good defender (if anything he might be the weakest link in that starting group), but I do think he's become a lot better. But you look around him and they've got Westbrook, Thabo and Serge -- basically a plus defender on all points of the floor (backcourt, wing, interior). They're currently third in defensive efficiency and it takes some of those individually talented defenders to get there (in addition to some other things). Not sure whose ours would be in that 6.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

This year the salary cap is at $58 M, and the luxury tax threshold is at $71.7 M. I read one article projecting the salary cap next as being at $62 M. The Jazz aren't going to have any issue filling a roster with decent complimentary players for several years and staying well behind the tax line.

If Favors and Kanter and Hayward and Burks turn out to be good enough to justify big time money, then the Jazz won't have to pay a complimentary guy $6 M. If the Jazz need a few $6 M per year level guys to be as competitive as they want to be, then their top level guys won't have proven to be good enough to merit big enough contracts to put Utah in any real salary bind.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

I don't think there's a good measure. And I don't think the predraft agility drill does a very good job of measuring the lateral footspeed needed for defense (and I don't know anybody that does). I also didn't say Durant has good footspeed for defense, just better than Bird and Jabari (which I don't think is saying much). He also of course has much better length than either as well, which helps him. I also didn't say he's a good defender (if anything he might be the weakest link in that starting group), but I do think he's become a lot better. But you look around him and they've got Westbrook, Thabo and Serge -- basically a plus defender on all points of the floor (backcourt, wing, interior). They're currently third in defensive efficiency and it takes some of those individually talented defenders to get there (in addition to some other things). Not sure whose ours would be in that 6.

I don't know about being a plus defender, but Burke is clearly proving to be a plus intangible/leadership guy. So Utah is set. Now if they can just find the Harpring-esque high-effort-always-even-if-he-fouls-constantly-and-only-takes-midrange-jumpers guy.

[Jacob]

You are showing a bit of ignorance here. The Jazz have paid the luxury tax in the past: see 2009. I don't suspect they will, or that they will need to any time soon, only that they would so a little over it in a year they fell just short of the finals and thought they needed one more piece, if they absolutely had to). As we've shown, they have a ton of money under the cap and another $12M or more before hitting the tax threshold. There is no danger of getting anywhere near that anytime soon. Since that emoticon was the only response you could muster, I'm going to assume that we are now in agreement that the Jazz would easily be able to afford a $6M/year defensive player over the next 2 years (or 3, or 4) and that you retract or previous statement.


If you don't agree. Why can't people just agree? If you were right, I'd certainly agree with you. I will even admit that you are probably right in your initial post in the other thread about Sacramento and the Lakers. In fact, I did so right away in that thread.

[Jacob]

I don't know about being a plus defender, but Burke is clearly proving to be a plus intangible/leadership guy. So Utah is set. Now if they can just find the Harpring-esque high-effort-always-even-if-he-fouls-constantly-and-only-takes-midrange-jumpers guy.

I once saw Harping hit about 7 of those mid-range jumpers in a row in a single half. He passed the ball exactly zero times that half. I counted! Zero passes!

[The_Douger]

Harpring was a black hole. I hated having him on the team.

[Jacob]

So Bill Simmons in all his wisdom believes the Boston Celtics are going to make a big play for Hayward either in February or a big RFA offer in the summer, or both, I suppose. My first reaction was, good luck with that. Boston has nothing to offer. Jazz don't want Rondo. But then I remembered that the Celtics are a bottom tier team, and so is Brooklyn, who owes their 2014 pick to the Celtics. With all that said, Brooklyn will not likely end up with a top 7 pick. If the Jazz were to trade Hayward to the Celtics, then the Cetlics would not likely have a top 5 pick. So any trade this season is not going to happen.

But what if something like this happens?

1. Lottery results in Jazz receiving 4th overall pick, Celtics in top 6.

Celtics offer top 6 pick to Jazz for Gordon in S&T.

How high would that pick have to be for you to say yes? If top 2, I definitely say yes. Even if they made me take Wallace or Green to dump salary. But, if top 3, I doubt the Celtics would offer it. I don't think the Celtics own much of a sweetener for a lower pick. Well, there is Brooklyns' 2016 pick. And that Brooklyn team will be over the cap with only 3 players. Joe Johnson leading the way at $26M. Deron and Lopez may never be healthy.

[MarkGrace]

Just played the lotto simulator and Jazz landed Exum at 5.

[MarkGrace]

Hollinger's playoff predictor projects Jazz to finish 28-54 and tied for 3rd worst record with Orlando and Lakers.

http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/playoffodds

[cougjunkie]

Cj Miles with another goos night. 15pts on 5-5 from three.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

[LiveCoug]

Now this is the type of loss that really helps!

[MarkGrace]

Didn't realize Go Bear and Clark were back in the D.

Go Bear has played 7 games total and averaged 12.6 points, 11 rebounds and 3 blocks in 26.6 minutes. Clark is averaging 12.7 points, 5 assists and 3 rebounds in 31.9 minutes.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

I lost some faith in Dennis. He called Marvin Williams the best player on the Jazz so far this year.

Marvin has shot 3's well. He's also getting completely abused on defense, doesn't do anything on offense but shoot 3's, and as a 14 PER. 4th in rpg, 7th in ppg, 8th in apg. What an absurd comment. I know Lindsey said in the off-season that they hope Marvin finishes his career in Utah so I guess this is a recruiting pitch in advance of summer free agency.

[smokymountainrain]

I lost some faith in Dennis. He called Marvin Williams the best player on the Jazz so far this year.

Marvin has shot 3's well. He's also getting completely abused on defense, doesn't do anything on offense but shoot 3's, and as a 14 PER. 4th in rpg, 7th in ppg, 8th in apg. What an absurd comment. I know Lindsey said in the off-season that they hope Marvin finishes his career in Utah so I guess this is a recruiting pitch in advance of summer free agency.

5th on the team in +/- (second among regulars), but you basically can't go to any stat and claim he's been the team's best player. All he does is shoot 3s and he's not even the team's best 3pt shooter - Dick is better. What a silly comment.