Ukraine - somebody explain to me

[Clark Addison]

Fog of war and all that, but "reports" say that Russia sent 20 Major Generals to Ukraine with the invading army, and 4 have now been killed.

There are a lot of folks here who have much more military expertise than I do, but a 20% fatality rate for your generals seems a whole lot higher than you would want.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/russia...ed-in-mariupol

[Clark Addison]

Putin getting a head start on the whole "Hitler in the bunker" mentality:

"The West will try to rely on the so-called fifth column, on national traitors, on those who earn money here with us but live there. And I mean 'live there' not even in the geographical sense of the word, but according to their thoughts, their slavish consciousness...

But any people, and even more so the Russian people, will always be able to distinguish true patriots from scum and traitors, and simply spit them out like a gnat that accidentally flew into their mouths, spit them out on the pavement,"

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/17/europ...cmd/index.html

[old_gregg]

Putin getting a head start on the whole "Hitler in the bunker" mentality:

"The West will try to rely on the so-called fifth column, on national traitors, on those who earn money here with us but live there. And I mean 'live there' not even in the geographical sense of the word, but according to their thoughts, their slavish consciousness...

But any people, and even more so the Russian people, will always be able to distinguish true patriots from scum and traitors, and simply spit them out like a gnat that accidentally flew into their mouths, spit them out on the pavement,"

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/17/europ...cmd/index.html

the whole speech is crazy. but, more social unrest in russia is a good thing.

[myboynoah]

the whole speech is crazy. but, more social unrest in russia is a good thing.

And things not going at all well in Ukraine.

Not where one expects to be three weeks into an invasion where one had an overwhelming advantage in men, materiel, and firepower.

Embedded Tweet

[myboynoah]

lol if true.

It seems the Chinese may be coming around.

Embedded Tweet

[Bo Diddley]

Fog of war and all that, but "reports" say that Russia sent 20 Major Generals to Ukraine with the invading army, and 4 have now been killed.

There are a lot of folks here who have much more military expertise than I do, but a 20% fatality rate for your generals seems a whole lot higher than you would want.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/russia...ed-in-mariupol

I'm really not that well schooled on wars in the past, but I can't fathom a 20% mortality rate of our 2-Stars. I saw a tweet earlier that said the generals are frequently using unsecured phones, and the Ukrainians are able to intercept the calls, and in at least one case, were able to triangulate their position and send in fire on their position.

Shoot, Move, Communicate. Each one of those three are critical.

[myboynoah]

I'm really not that well schooled on wars in the past, but I can't fathom a 20% mortality rate of our 2-Stars. I saw a tweet earlier that said the generals are frequently using unsecured phones, and the Ukrainians are able to intercept the calls, and in at least one case, were able to triangulate their position and send in fire on their position.

Shoot, Move, Communicate. Each one of those three are critical.

Thanks Bo. But should they really be that close to the action? Should they be in the line of fire? I get the triangulation if you have a loitering UAV able to strike, but that doesn't sound like the case in all of these four cases. Seems strange to see such attrition in general officers. A good kind of strange.

[Bo Diddley]

Thanks Bo. But should they really be that close to the action? Should they be in the line of fire? I get the triangulation if you have a loitering UAV able to strike, but that doesn't sound like the case in all of these four cases. Seems strange to see such attrition in general officers. A good kind of strange.

I think it underscores both a lack of communication with and commitment from the soldiers fighting on the front lines.

Keep in mind too, that the old Soviet model for leadership in their army is that the officers micromanage their subordinates. The enlisted soldiers do not make decisions independently, and there's not a lot of flexibility in the way junior officers carry out the orders of their superior officers. If they could have brute forced their way through Ukraine, that model could have worked for them. Now that they have to adapt, it requires the decision makers to be up close and personal.

[Clark Addison]

Thanks Bo. But should they really be that close to the action? Should they be in the line of fire? I get the triangulation if you have a loitering UAV able to strike, but that doesn't sound like the case in all of these four cases. Seems strange to see such attrition in general officers. A good kind of strange.

I will re-emphasize that I am not a mile away from being an expert, but similar to what Mr. Diddley said, I have read that the Soviet/Russian model gives far less latitude to their officers, leading to Russian Generals making decisions that would be made at a lower level in Western armies, forcing more generals to be in close proximity to the front.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I saw a tweet earlier that said the generals are frequently using unsecured phones, and the Ukrainians are able to intercept the calls, and in at least one case, were able to triangulate their position and send in fire on their position.

Well, it is kind of like a tweet I guess.

https://www.cougarstadium.com/forum/...18#post2244518

[myboynoah]

They are getting much better at this. Early on in the war I would question all the positive numbers, but I'm thinking these daily reports are pretty credible.

Embedded Tweet

[Bo Diddley]

Well, it is kind of like a tweet I guess.

https://www.cougarstadium.com/forum/...18#post2244518

Haha, yep! I've been reading so many tweets, articles and updates that I can't keep track anymore.

[USUC]

I've been in awe of the feeble arguments about NATO's role in starting this and the cognitive dissonance and inability to apply their own logic when it comes to their criticism of how the US is bad when it comes to our sphere of influence. I think the NATO as a scapegoat for Putin's actions argument is dumb, but this is such a good thread about the role NATO DOES play in this. It really does neutralize any good faith arguments in favor of Putin.

Embedded Tweet

[Pelado]

Yeah, invading your neighbor so that they don't join NATO kind of proves the point that your neighbor is right to want to join NATO.

[myboynoah]

That's a good read. I also think Puten was threatened by a vibrant, economically progressive Ukraine with strong ties to Europe on its border to which Russians could look and wonder why they couldn't have what the Urkrainians have.