Annex Canada

[Northwestcoug]

Canada law (MAID) is more permissive than any of the US states that allow it. For example, US states generally require a terminal diagnosis with six months or less to live. Canada does not have such a requirement. It just has to "grevious and irredeemable". I.e., it is not going away.

Canada alows the doctor to kill the patient. US states allow doctor to provide lethal medication, but the patient has to self-administer.

Canada allows non-terminal conditions such as mental illness alone. (this is inexcusable).

Also, the fact that you have not personally witnessed a doctor recommending MAID does not mean it isn't happening.

The article brings up many valid potential issues. One of the more significant ones is if the lack of adequate support services for long-term disabilities influences those discussions and decisions, either from a clinician or patient. The other is that since health care is run provincially there is already a standard of care issue, so the fact that most physicians can initiate these discussions without oversight is another reason to worry.

The fact that Quebec has the highest rate of death by euthanasia rate (7%) is not surprising to me. Most socio-political issues in Quebec can be understood by the decades-long revolution against the Catholic church. As in, whatever the church is for younger Quebecers tend to rebel against. As far as the overall Canadian rate of ~4%, I'm not sure I can judge if that in and of itself is alarming or not. We've all seen end of life issues with family and loved ones. I would guess that a significantly more patients are debilitated and have lost a lot of their dignity than 4%.

Despite all these and other important points, I agree with Tooblue that the article is sensationalist. I mean, cmon. "Canada is killing itself"? The fact that physician assisted suicide is openly talked about will necessarily bring up troubling anecdotal reports (and potentially worrying trends). I respect people wanting to place more restrictive gaurdrails surrounding physician assisted suicide, and I suspect that conversation is happening in circles that I'm not a part of. As in all things of medical ethics, pendulums swing. Tragic cases can help push the pendulum towards the center, but also many sensible people wrestle with these issues and try to confront them as a society changes.

And replying to Tooblue's comment further, I'll just say that if a society assigns dignity in promoting life, it should also value dignity in death. Prolonging an unhealthy life via medically accepted treatments and taking measures to time death to give a person the dignity they want and deserve reside on the same ethical spectrum. Pets are routinely allowed more dignity in death. I don't think of lot of the world is ready to accept physicians actively ending lives, but I don't see why giving a patient the medication for suicide and actively participating in it should be viewed as materially different (I don't know if there are people who view these differently; it just seems that Canada/Netherlands et al are viewed differently than the US states that have allowed assisted suicide).

[Lost Student]

You may be right, but I'm taking Canada off my list of potential retirement destinations. Too risky.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Pets are routinely allowed more dignity in death.

Dignity? Ha.

noem.png

[Northwestcoug]

Dignity? Ha.

noem.png

Bro. Bro...

[Copelius]

Bro. Bro...

[tooblue]

I imagine this is what the Atlantic article author and FOX news watchers think Canadian death Dr.s look like roaming the wards in Canadian hospitals ...

MAID.jpg

[tooblue]

Canadian icon Robert Munsch has chosen to die by MAID

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...ource=trending

Speaking about watching one of his brothers dying from Lou Gehrig’s disease, Munsch is reported as saying ...

"They kept him alive through all these interventions,” the author said. “I thought: Let him die.” He added that he will choose to die “when I start having real trouble talking and communicating. Then I’ll know.”

Again, I don't agree with administering drugs to end a life, even if that is the choice someone makes. I do agree with the church handbook that families should prayerfully consider the impact of end of life "interventions" and strive to see life from an eternal perspective.

In follow up to earlier discussions, there are no Dr. Deaths hovering around Robert Munsch waiting to push the plunger. He's still alive 4 years after making his decision.

[tooblue]

https://5280.com/medical-aid-in-dying/?utm_source=firefox-newtab-en-us

The Coloradans Exercising Their Right To Die—and a Doctor Who Helps Them Find Peace

More terminally ill Coloradans than ever are turning to Denver Health’s Medical Aid in Dying clinic. We spent the summer witnessing the quiet decisions and final moments of those who chose when—and how—to say goodbye.

Lost Student should also likely take Colorado of his list.

[Jeff Lebowski]

https://5280.com/medical-aid-in-dyin...x-newtab-en-us

The Coloradans Exercising Their Right To Die—and a Doctor Who Helps Them Find Peace

More terminally ill Coloradans than ever are turning to Denver Health’s Medical Aid in Dying clinic. We spent the summer witnessing the quiet decisions and final moments of those who chose when—and how—to say goodbye.

Lost Student should also likely take Colorado of his list.

If your point is to show that Denver is as liberal as Canada, why bother. Nobody would argue that.

[tooblue]

If your point is to show that Denver is as liberal as Canada, why bother. Nobody would argue that.

Or that it is just as easy to access assisted suicide in the United States as anywhere else

[Jeff Lebowski]

Or that it is just as easy to access assisted suicide in the United States as anywhere else

It is legal in 11 states. Illegal in 39.

[tooblue]

It is legal in 11 states. Illegal in 39.

Crossing the border into Colorado can be a bit tricky—passport control is notoriously stringent.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Crossing the border into Colorado can be a bit tricky—passport control is notoriously stringent.

Suppose you have a debilitating illness and you live in Florida. The closest state with medically assisted suicide is Delaware, which is 1300 miles away.

And thankfully, the doctors in Florida won’t be asking, “Hey, have you considered killing yourself?“

[tooblue]

Suppose you have a debilitating illness and you live in Florida. The closest state with medically assisted suicide is Delaware, which is 1300 miles away.

And thankfully, the doctors in Florida won’t be asking, “Hey, have you considered killing yourself?“

The point is, any individual does not need to leave their own country to access assisted suicide. So, Americans are also killing themselves.

[Jeff Lebowski]

The point is, any individual does not need to leave their own country to access assisted suicide. So, Americans are also killing themselves.

Are you defending assisted suicide, defending Canada, or condemning the US for being just as ghoulish? Hard to tell.

For the record, there are several differences:

USA: legal in 11 states, illegal in 39
Canada: federal law

USA: doctor provides drugs, patient self administers
Canada: doctor can kill the patient

USA: restricted to a limited number of terminal illnesses
Canada: can be used for a broad range of illness, many not terminal, including mental illness

God forbid we ever become fully like Canada on this issue.