2024 Presidential Election Thread

[fusnik]

That is just flat out wrong.

Here's the problem, Fus. You've locked your mind into a binary worldview where there are only two options: support Biden, or support Trump. In that view, you either back Biden or you inherently ratify everything Trump has said or done.

That worldview is seriously flawed. A person can rationally believe that Trump should not be president while simultaneously believing that Biden should not be president. That does not make them equivalent or put them on the same plane.

I already have a perfect score of not voting for Trump. I do not intend to tarnish that unblemished record anytime soon. I can't not vote for him harder than I already am.

And I fundamentally reject the notion that I have to vote for the second-worst option out of sheer revulsion to the first-worst option. If you buy into that false premise, then you are just letting Trump drag down the other side too.

There are only 2 options but it isn’t Trump or Biden, for me, it’s hanging on to the American experiment v the almost certain destruction of America.

You’ll respond I’m being alarmist, I’ll say you haven’t properly read the tea leaves for years.

Do I think if Trump is elected America will end during his 4 years? No, the stock market will probably be ok, housing market will probably be ok, but it will most likely be the final indication we are a dying republic. When history analyzes this time his reelection will be looked at the tipping point to our country’s demise.

We can’t elect a crook, sexual assaulter, and coup enabler be our leader for 8 years and think that everything is going to be fine over the next 30.

[Copelius]

I don’t think we were on the knife’s edge of a real coup

But it was a horrible day that never should’ve happened and the people are rightly being prosecuted.

My thoughts as well. Furthermore, the end of the America wailing by either side is getting rather tired. Is the United States actually in more danger of coming apart as a country than it was in 1861, when those who disagreed with the outcome literally fought military battles over an election? Based on the Republican Party nominating Trump I am no longer a Republican. Having already ruled out Biden, I will look at the other candidates and determine which one most closely matches my philosophy. I am sorry I cannot think in a binary fashion on politics, but I am what I am. If more of the citizens would think that way we would have less rancor in the political discourse of the country because the hardliners of the major parties would have to build coalitions with the more reasonable parties.

[Commando]

It was 100% Trump's intention not to leave office. He just couldn't get the military or DOJ or VP to go along. Jan 6 was just the last ditch hope for him that the violence would do the trick. It's bad enough he even wanted to at all regardless that it didn't work out. It's absolutely a coup attempt.

Exactly. The stupid rednecks who had not taken an oath to defend the constitution did exactly what Trump wanted. Bill Barr didn't, much to Trump's chagrin. Mike Pence didn't, and neither did his generals, who were all disgusted by the intimation that he would suggest such a thing. But Trump did more than suggest. He was steering us toward a dictatorship in everything but name-- remember him sending Border Patrol (federal troops)to quell civil disorder in Portland? WTF? Remember he teargassed and wanted to SHOOT peaceful protesters in D.C. And if you think he just wants four more years I have a bridge in Baltimore to sell you...

[Non Sequitur]

My thoughts as well. Furthermore, the end of the America wailing by either side is getting rather tired. Is the United States actually in more danger of coming apart as a country than it was in 1861, when those who disagreed with the outcome literally fought military battles over an election? Based on the Republican Party nominating Trump I am no longer a Republican. Having already ruled out Biden, I will look at the other candidates and determine which one most closely matches my philosophy. I am sorry I cannot think in a binary fashion on politics, but I am what I am. If more of the citizens would think that way we would have less rancor in the political discourse of the country because the hardliners of the major parties would have to build coalitions with the more reasonable parties.

Why even bother to vote? If you're not serious about fixing a problem, your gesture is meaningless. You're like the person standing around watching a rape and not wanting to get involved.

[YOhio]

Why even bother to vote? If you're not serious about fixing a problem, your gesture is meaningless. You're like the person standing around watching a rape and not wanting to get involved.

In my opinion Copelius choosing a candidate that he thinks would make the best president isn't the same thing as standing around and watching a rape.

[falafel]

A coup attempt is an attempt. The fact that is was being pushed by the sitting POTUS and current nominee of the GOP should be horrifying.

It horrifying. Pretty sure the entire board (minus Ted) agrees.

[Moliere]

It was 100% Trump's intention not to leave office. He just couldn't get the military or DOJ or VP to go along. Jan 6 was just the last ditch hope for him that the violence would do the trick. It's bad enough he even wanted to at all regardless that it didn't work out. It's absolutely a coup attempt.

It was a coup attempt but it was never going to be a real coup. Like you said, no one other than a bunch of crazy people and ultra conserative politicians went along with it. It was DOA. It was horrible, but the republic was never in real jeopardy.

[Northwestcoug]

And this is why there’s a serious chance in the next 30 years our country gets ripped apart.

If the educated, smart (and I say that with sincerity) can’t make rational decisions, our country is way closer to the edge than we acknowledge.

I’m convinced now, Moliere, you, AA, Copelius, don’t think Jan 6 was that big of a deal. You’ve said as much in this thread.

The existential problem for the country isn't Trump anymore. One major problem is Trump voters. but not in the way NS sees it. They will always be around, with varying degrees of influence. Find a way to nominate a sane candidate and their influence will wane. If someone who has proven time and again not to be fit for president can sail through the primaries without any serious opposition and have a betting chance of being the president, then there's a massive systemic failure here. Another Trump-esque figure will most assuredly run again. And I wouldn't bet against someone similar running as a democrat.

[Non Sequitur]

In my opinion Copelius choosing a candidate that he thinks would make the best president isn't the same thing as standing around and watching a rape.

You can watch or you can participate. You don't deserve a pat on the back for only watching.

[Moliere]

Not to change the topic away from how 95% of the board are redhat wearing Trump supporters, but I thought this article from the WSJ highlights some of the issues with the economy and inflation. The economy is roaring but people still don't feel like they are better off mostly because everyday items cost a lot more today than they did five years ago. For instance, groceries cost 36.5% more today than in 2019 and most people didn't increase their wages by the same amount.

How Far $100 Goes at the Grocery Store After Five Years of Food Inflation - WSJ

Inflation is real and it hurts the poor and middle class disproportionately...so it's no surprise that Biden is losing those voters.

[Bo Diddley]

Not to change the topic away from how 95% of the board are redhat wearing Trump supporters, but I thought this article from the WSJ highlights some of the issues with the economy and inflation. The economy is roaring but people still don't feel like they are better off mostly because everyday items cost a lot more today than they did five years ago. For instance, groceries cost 36.5% more today than in 2019 and most people didn't increase their wages by the same amount.

How Far $100 Goes at the Grocery Store After Five Years of Food Inflation - WSJ

Inflation is real and it hurts the poor and middle class disproportionately...so it's no surprise that Biden is losing those voters.

Exactly.

[fusnik]

It horrifying. Pretty sure the entire board (minus Ted) agrees.

I’d disagree.

If you think it was horrifying your only choice in this election is to vote for folks who oppose those that participated and enabled the attempt.

Many here have expressed their inability to do that which lends me to believe they don’t think it was horrifying.

We’re back to the, dont take Trump literally, only symbolically.

[All-American]

Why even bother to vote? If you're not serious about fixing a problem, your gesture is meaningless. You're like the person standing around watching a rape and not wanting to get involved.

If you are only voting when "meaningful," I have terrible news for you: your vote is ALWAYS meaningless.

[PaloAltoCougar]

It was a coup attempt but it was never going to be a real coup. Like you said, no one other than a bunch of crazy people and ultra conserative politicians went along with it. It was DOA. It was horrible, but the republic was never in real jeopardy.

I know you don't mean it this way, but it irritates me to no end when people make that argument in defending Trump, arguing that it was no big deal. We don't let a would-be murderer off the hook because he's stupid and a really lousy shot.

[falafel]

I’d disagree.

If you think it was horrifying your only choice in this election is to vote for folks who oppose those that participated and enabled the attempt.

Many here have expressed their inability to do that which lends me to believe they don’t think it was horrifying.

We’re back to the, dont take Trump literally, only symbolically.

Right there is your problem. You'll never convince anyone that you are right by telling them there are only two options and its the one I'm arguing for.