Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the News

[CardiacCoug]

Just to state my position: I think it’s creepy AF and totally inappropriate for a man to act like he notices, to have any opinion on, or to respond in any way to how a woman breastfeeds her kid.

It’s none of any of our damn business.

It legitimately shocks me that anybody here would disagree with that.

[swampfrog]

Menstruation is also a sign of fertility, yet I dont know of anyone who finds a prurient interest in such matters. Many religions and cultures put the woman away in shame, and she has to purify herself before she can come back into general society. Why would thousands of years of breasts-as-fertility symbol be a thing but not thousands of years of menstruation-as-fertility symbol be not a thing

That makes the assumption that all evolutionary "features" of human reproduction were selected for the same reason. Evolutionary biology is not just the study of what is, but using the evidence of the current state of biology, along with other co-evolved species, historical data, etc. to try and determine the most likely reason for the selection. It's obviously not 100%, but the conclusions about breasts, especially given the rampant current day evidence is pretty solid. Menstruation would have evolved for completely different reasons, a quick google search of "evolutionary biology menstruation" showed the most likely reason was selection for viability of a fetus. The video I linked previously delves in greater detail, including the possible reasons that the actual physical signs of peak time of the fertility cycle are hidden from both the male and female of the human race. Which is also a fairly unique adaptation.

Evolutionary biology isn't pretty with regard to current day human morality, which is why it's already one of the next fields of study to be showing signs of ostracization by PC ideologies. Solutions to current day moral problems are way better when they consider and understand the biological history. Only when all of the cards are on the table can people craft social policy that will actually not suffer from the massive doses of unintended consequences seen throughout human history.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Mormons in the News

Let me get this straight. Do some of the posters on this fine website believe it’s any man’s right or job to tell any woman to cover up while breastfeeding?

Just a simple yes or no will do. Just trying to understand WTF the dude and others are arguing for.

I am on record as saying that I personally have no problem with public breastfeeding. I also think this sister sounds nutty and there is probably way more to the story.

And anyone who disagrees with me is obviously a religious fundamentalist!

[myboynoah]

Let me get this straight. Do some of the posters on this fine website believe it’s any man’s right or job to tell any woman to cover up while breastfeeding?

Just a simple yes or no will do. Just trying to understand WTF the dude and others are arguing for.

Obviously, it depends.

[swampfrog]

Let me get this straight. Do some of the posters on this fine website believe it’s any man’s right or job to tell any woman to cover up while breastfeeding?

Just a simple yes or no will do. Just trying to understand WTF the dude and others are arguing for.

No.

However, to understand what I'm arguing for, I recommend that you watch the video where the evolutionary biologist relates the story of visiting the Amazon rain forest where a member of the group has decided to wear swimwear instead of the standard attire. When native men respond by visually showing interest, the demand is made of the professor that she make them stop. Instead she suggests the young woman put on some clothes. This is then discussed in some detail. You can continue by reading the following by the same evolutionary biologist:

https://quillette.com/2018/07/09/on-toxic-femininity/

Just to state my position: I think it’s creepy AF and totally inappropriate for a man to act like he notices, to have any opinion on, or to respond in any way to how a woman breastfeeds her kid.

It’s none of any of our damn business.

It legitimately shocks me that anybody here would disagree with that.

The PC culture would have us believe that not only should a man not have the right to tell any woman how to act but also that men should not have any sexual response to the act at all. If they do there is something wrong with them. Breasts trigger a sexual response in human males. It's a biological response not governed by higher reason. We therefore require social enforcement through culture and other avenues to teach men the "correct" way to act when receiving innate sexual signals. When we discuss policies of covering up vs. social enforcement of self-control we must have an honest discussion.

Lay all the cards out there. Men are pre-wired to respond sexually to breasts. The response is on a continuum, some males respond more strongly than others. Age is a factor. When puberty hits the response begins to grow and declines throughout life, at different rates. Young men especially require socialization to learn how to appropriately respond to natural sexual signals. This process takes time. There's probably a myriad of other pieces of information that would be useful to discuss openly. In mixed-age congregations of people how are we going to mitigate between budding natural sexual curiosity of young men versus the rights of women? There are reasons to desire properly socialized men--but there is disagreement on what properly socialized means. And then it takes time, how is society going to help them reach healthy socialization? It's in everyone's interest that they do, including breast-feeding mothers.

And of course it's our business, we are all part of the human race. We want to live together harmoniously. Human sexuality is an important part of our coexistence. We should be able to discuss it openly and honestly.

[falafel]

Just to state my position: I think it’s creepy AF and totally inappropriate for a man to act like he notices, to have any opinion on, or to respond in any way to how a woman breastfeeds her kid.

It’s none of any of our damn business.

It legitimately shocks me that anybody here would disagree with that.

Sorry. Hope you begin to understand that people have different opinions then you.

[Walter Sobchak]

No.

However, to understand what I'm arguing for, I recommend that you watch the video where the evolutionary biologist relates the story of visiting the Amazon rain forest where a member of the group has decided to wear swimwear instead of the standard attire. When native men respond by visually showing interest, the demand is made of the professor that she make them stop. Instead she suggests the young woman put on some clothes. This is then discussed in some detail. You can continue by reading the following by the same evolutionary biologist:

https://quillette.com/2018/07/09/on-toxic-femininity/



The PC culture would have us believe that not only should a man not have the right to tell any woman how to act but also that men should not have any sexual response to the act at all. If they do there is something wrong with them. Breasts trigger a sexual response in human males. It's a biological response not governed by higher reason. We therefore require social enforcement through culture and other avenues to teach men the "correct" way to act when receiving innate sexual signals. When we discuss policies of covering up vs. social enforcement of self-control we must have an honest discussion.

Lay all the cards out there. Men are pre-wired to respond sexually to breasts. The response is on a continuum, some males respond more strongly than others. Age is a factor. When puberty hits the response begins to grow and declines throughout life, at different rates. Young men especially require socialization to learn how to appropriately respond to natural sexual signals. This process takes time. There's probably a myriad of other pieces of information that would be useful to discuss openly. In mixed-age congregations of people how are we going to mitigate between budding natural sexual curiosity of young men versus the rights of women? There are reasons to desire properly socialized men--but there is disagreement on what properly socialized means. And then it takes time, how is society going to help them reach healthy socialization? It's in everyone's interest that they do, including breast-feeding mothers.

And of course it's our business, we are all part of the human race. We want to live together harmoniously. Human sexuality is an important part of our coexistence. We should be able to discuss it openly and honestly.

Where is the +1 button?!

quillette.com has been hitting homeruns for sometime now. I'm glad someone else is reading it (as it's fairly obscure... like The _Intercept). I discovered Quillette last year when Pinker referred to it in a tweet.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Where is the +1 button?!

quillette.com has been hitting homeruns for sometime now. I'm glad someone else is reading it (as it's fairly obscure... like The _Intercept). I discovered Quillette last year when Pinker referred to it in a tweet.

Agreed. Quillette is great.

[CardiacCoug]

I like that article sf — thanks for the link and for your explanation. I understand that point better now.

[Moliere]

I am on record as saying that I personally have no problem with public breastfeeding. I also think this sister sounds nutty and there is probably way more to the story.

And anyone who disagrees with me is obviously a religious fundamentalist!

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Looks like you are probably right. There is some untold part of this story.

[LiveCoug]

Embedded Tweet

Looks like you are probably right. There is some untold part of this story.

Of course there is much more to the story. That was obvious from the get go

[Northwestcoug]

Checkmate:

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[swampfrog]

Checkmate:

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I'm pretty sure this was tongue-in-cheek, but it opens the door to an interesting conversation none-the-less. In the mythological story of Adam and Eve, what does the figure of the serpent represent? And what does the revelation of nakedness represent?

[cowboy]

No.

However, to understand what I'm arguing for, I recommend that you watch the video where the evolutionary biologist relates the story of visiting the Amazon rain forest where a member of the group has decided to wear swimwear instead of the standard attire. When native men respond by visually showing interest, the demand is made of the professor that she make them stop. Instead she suggests the young woman put on some clothes. This is then discussed in some detail. You can continue by reading the following by the same evolutionary biologist:

https://quillette.com/2018/07/09/on-toxic-femininity/



The PC culture would have us believe that not only should a man not have the right to tell any woman how to act but also that men should not have any sexual response to the act at all. If they do there is something wrong with them. Breasts trigger a sexual response in human males. It's a biological response not governed by higher reason. We therefore require social enforcement through culture and other avenues to teach men the "correct" way to act when receiving innate sexual signals. When we discuss policies of covering up vs. social enforcement of self-control we must have an honest discussion.

Lay all the cards out there. Men are pre-wired to respond sexually to breasts. The response is on a continuum, some males respond more strongly than others. Age is a factor. When puberty hits the response begins to grow and declines throughout life, at different rates. Young men especially require socialization to learn how to appropriately respond to natural sexual signals. This process takes time. There's probably a myriad of other pieces of information that would be useful to discuss openly. In mixed-age congregations of people how are we going to mitigate between budding natural sexual curiosity of young men versus the rights of women? There are reasons to desire properly socialized men--but there is disagreement on what properly socialized means. And then it takes time, how is society going to help them reach healthy socialization? It's in everyone's interest that they do, including breast-feeding mothers.

And of course it's our business, we are all part of the human race. We want to live together harmoniously. Human sexuality is an important part of our coexistence. We should be able to discuss it openly and honestly.

I like that article sf — thanks for the link and for your explanation. I understand that point better now.

This exchange is the ideal for constructive discourse. This country would be a lot better if people explained opinions calmly and reasonably, and people on the other side were willing to listen.

[Northwestcoug]

I'm pretty sure this was tongue-in-cheek, but it opens the door to an interesting conversation none-the-less. In the mythological story of Adam and Eve, what does the figure of the serpent represent? And what does the revelation of nakedness represent?

Whoa. Mythological? That's a loaded term around these parts