Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the News

[falafel]

Stake presidents get exed all the time. See the recent case in Tooele.

Kinda hard to hide that one though.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Kinda hard to hide that one though.

One the beefs I have with church courts (and temple recommends) is how members seem eager to see people they know subjected to the public shame and ridicule associated with them. I know of several cases where people call up bishops and SPs suggesting that someone lose their membership or TR. It's an ugly, vindictive response and quite common unfortunately. So the fact that someone felt like an SP in Texas got off easy doesn't move my needle.

[frank ryan]

One the beefs I have with church courts (and temple recommends) is how members seem eager to see people they know subjected to the public shame and ridicule associated with them. I know of several cases where people call up bishops and SPs suggesting that someone lose their membership or TR. It's an ugly, vindictive response and quite common unfortunately. So the fact that someone felt like an SP in Texas got off easy doesn't move my needle.

It's poor to celebrate the failure of others.

[jay santos]

Can you two clarify what you mean here? Specifically, can you give us examples of things he may have done that would normally result in a church court, but would not for a GA?

For the record: I am calling BS on this double standard you are implying.

Well I don't say this in a real accusatory way. I think it's common sense for an organization to behave this way. And I'm not that committed to it. Just a speculation.

I would think there's a huge cost to the church to excommunicate a general authority, so they would be reticent to do so, if the "sin" is secret.

If the sin were public, it goes the other way. They need to be made an example of. The handbook actually mentions this. That sin for high level officials that is public deserves greater punishment.

[HBCoug]

Stake presidents get exed all the time. See the recent case in Tooele.

Wait, so church discipline is handled differently in different places and often times quite arbitrary. Crazy!

When did the church move to this model of not discussing specifics in cases of excommunication or apostasy? Maybe things have changed since I stopped attending, but aren't lessons dedicated to the specific examples of excommunicated members like the ridiculous Thomas Marsh / milk strippings story and the Simonds Ryder (sp) revelation? Or is it only important to respect the details of the living since there is still a chance he may someday return?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Well I don't say this in a real accusatory way. I think it's common sense for an organization to behave this way. And I'm not that committed to it. Just a speculation.

I would think there's a huge cost to the church to excommunicate a general authority, so they would be reticent to do so, if the "sin" is secret.

If the sin were public, it goes the other way. They need to be made an example of. The handbook actually mentions this. That sin for high level officials that is public deserves greater punishment.

The bold part is the reason I think this theory doesn't work. I can't think of any sin worthy of church court that could reasonably be kept secret. Especially in the internet age. I am sure church leadership is well aware of this.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Wait, so church discipline is handled differently in different places and often times quite arbitrary. Crazy!

When did the church move to this model of not discussing specifics in cases of excommunication or apostasy? Maybe things have changed since I stopped attending, but aren't lessons dedicated to the specific examples of excommunicated members like the ridiculous Thomas Marsh / milk strippings story and the Simonds Ryder (sp) revelation? Or is it only important to respect the details of the living since there is still a chance he may someday return?

It has been a while. The change was made during my lifetime.

[Moliere]

I wonder if he has to give back the Avalon.


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[snowcat]

It's poor to celebrate the failure of others.

[falafel]

I wonder if he has to give back the Avalon.


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He is given the option to purchase it.

[Green Monstah]

Stake presidents get exed all the time. See the recent case in Tooele.

That's a good example of someone who admitted to being transgender, was release for multiple years, then was excommunicated. I agree that SP are excommunicated routinely. When I look at this instance, I try to figure out what is different. One of the differences I see is that the person in question was an elected official. Also: not in Texas.

[Moliere]

He is given the option to purchase it.

Only if he had a good lawyer help him negotiate the terms of his employment agreement

I do wonder what the terms are now of his payment. I don't know what he did for work or what his position in life is, but it would be interesting to know if the church does continue to pay him (I don't think they will) or how he sustains himself if he was relying on the church for everything. I guess if push comes to shove, he can partner up with Dehlin and get his six-figures that way.

I do doubt we'll ever find out the reason for the excommunication, which is a good thing. If something does go public, then we'll find out, but I agree with JL that this isn't the church trying to preempt some news release. If anything, the church knows people will find out quickly either through the family or by him vanishing from the 1C70 pictures in the ensign, and then the speculation would run even more rampant.


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[SCcoug]

Is the process to ex a GA the same as a random Priesthood holder?

[jay santos]

The bold part is the reason I think this theory doesn't work. I can't think of any sin worthy of church court that could reasonably be kept secret. Especially in the internet age. I am sure church leadership is well aware of this.

Yes, that's probably true. Maybe the point is theoretical. But I think they would try their hardest NOT to excommunicate a general authority, no matter the sin, if it was something that wouldn't otherwise be made public.

[Green Monstah]

Is the process to ex a GA the same as a random Priesthood holder?

Based on news articles, it's held by the 1stP'cy and Q12. I'm sure it's similar in procedure to an MP holder being summoned to a disciplinary council in front of SP and High Council, but that's speculation on my part.