I learned in church today

[Y84it]

Last night we had a combined activity just for the Young Men. We started by playing a game and then had a special presentation, which consisted of watching this conference talk and then having a discussion. For starters, i'm not really on board with turning weekday activities into more church. That's one sure way to kill attendance at YM. That notwithstanding, the ultimate message ended up bugging me.

For those who don't remember the talk (I didn't) it relates a story of a young American who got a scholarship to a prestigious Japanese university. He and two other American friends attended a rooftop party, which apparently morphed into a party where the "alcohol amplified" and someone busted out some weed. When it reached the point where people were sharing "marijuana cigarettes", it wasn't enough for this kid to just leave (an Irish Exit, as they say). He felt prompted to let everyone know that "they could do as they wished," but he wouldn't participate in such activities. As he and one of his friends were leaving the building, the police arrived and eventually arrested everyone whose fingers smelled of MJ. The American who stayed had only been passing the joint around, and didn't ever smoke. Still, he got expelled and had to return home to America.

While there are some things that bug me about the story, I was generally fine with the message. However, the discussion afterward made me a bit uncomfortable. Much emphasis was places on how that kid's life was "ruined" by his choice to stay at a party with marijuana, while the kids who left eventually went on to great success. One leader felt compelled to tell the YM about how the temptations don't stop when you become an adult. He related that, as a firefighter, he is often presented with opportunities to attend parties put on by fellow firefighters. He told us how he always asks if there will be alcohol at the party, and when they say yes, he always takes the opportunity to let them know that he won't be attending because he "do[es]n't drink and [he] do[es]n't attend parties where alcohol is being consumed.

Sadly, i'm new enough in the ward that I chickened out and didn't rebut his asinine statements. And I didn't really want to make a scene in front of the YM, but today I'm feeling like I should have pointed out that, as an adult, there is nothing wrong with attending parties where alcohol is being served.

Anyway, this is sort of an incomplete thought, and I don't have time to wrap it up right now. But I wanted to let you all know what I learned in church yesterday.

I get the premise of "Avoid the very presence of evil" but I don't agree that consuming alcohol in itself is evil. I think drinking too much can turn it to a place you may not want to be. I have been to a bunch of parties where alcohol is consumed, it’s what people do in social settings. In many cases being the one not drinking in the party brings up good conversation about my beliefs and has been a positive experince in those situations. With all that said I do think it is a whole lot different with teenagers because a law is being broken. Not to mention you are easily influenced by your pears at that age so I would advise my kids to leave any party where alcohol is being served.

So to sum up... for the YM stay away but as an adult you can adapt.

[Pheidippides]

There are tons of people who don't drink for reasons that have nothing to do with religion. Get your club soda with a lime wedge, mix and mingle, if it gets sloppy, check out and head home discretely. This shouldn't be complicated. If you say something like, "I can't, I'm mormon and don't believe in that," you are a socially awkward dufus with judgmental implications to others. If you simple say, "no thank you," or "I'll have diet coke," or whatever else, most people will think nothing of it. At least in polite society.

On the flip side, if you do imbibe, it's never a good idea to do so to excess at work functions. Except the Christmas party because everybody else is hammered too.

[Paperback Writer]

I get the premise of "Avoid the very presence of evil" but I don't agree that consuming alcohol in itself is evil. I think drinking too much can turn it to a place you may not want to be. I have been to a bunch of parties where alcohol is consumed, it’s what people do in social settings. In many cases being the one not drinking in the party brings up good conversation about my beliefs and has been a positive experince in those situations. With all that said I do think it is a whole lot different with teenagers because a law is being broken. Not to mention you are easily influenced by your pears at that age so I would advise my kids to leave any party where alcohol is being served.

So to sum up... for the YM stay away but as an adult you can adapt.

So the switch just turns when a YM/YW reaches 18 since now they're legally considered an adult? IMO, most YM/YW are capable of exercising (or learning to) the same good judgement that most adults possess. My advice to my teenagers is that true friends will not pressure someone into drinking when its against their values. It's not easy to navigate but the fact is that if a parent restircts a teenager to only attend parties where alchol is served or require them to leave if alchol is present, then the only social activities they will attend are LDS ones. And when they reach adulthood the only social activities they will attend as adults will also be Mormon ones. No wonder LDS are so insular.

One of my teenagers once asked to drive a car to a party but there was a conflict with the cars. I asked him to get a ride since I wanted to drive the available car. His reply was that he was pretty sure that alcohol would be at the party and he wanted the ability to leave the party if it got out of hand or didn't want to risk being driven by someone who was drinking. He drove to the party and returned home from it sober and had a great time.

[Solon]

people were sharing "marijuana cigarettes"

Reefers.

[RC Vikings]

It's to bad that some people abuse alcohol. I've never been to a church party that couldn't have been just a little better if all the adults had a drink or two.

[imanihonjin]

So the switch just turns when a YM/YW reaches 18 since now they're legally considered an adult? IMO, most YM/YW are capable of exercising (or learning to) the same good judgement that most adults possess. My advice to my teenagers is that true friends will not pressure someone into drinking when its against their values. It's not easy to navigate but the fact is that if a parent restircts a teenager to only attend parties where alchol is served or require them to leave if alchol is present, then the only social activities they will attend are LDS ones. And when they reach adulthood the only social activities they will attend as adults will also be Mormon ones. No wonder LDS are so insular.

One of my teenagers once asked to drive a car to a party but there was a conflict with the cars. I asked him to get a ride since I wanted to drive the available car. His reply was that he was pretty sure that alcohol would be at the party and he wanted the ability to leave the party if it got out of hand or didn't want to risk being driven by someone who was drinking. He drove to the party and returned home from it sober and had a great time.

Sorry, I disagree and this has not only in respect to alcohol. Some teens are mature enough that the statement is true. However, I don't think it applies to most teenagers.

[LVAllen]

Last night we had a combined activity just for the Young Men. We started by playing a game and then had a special presentation, which consisted of watching this conference talk and then having a discussion. For starters, i'm not really on board with turning weekday activities into more church. That's one sure way to kill attendance at YM. That notwithstanding, the ultimate message ended up bugging me.

For those who don't remember the talk (I didn't) it relates a story of a young American who got a scholarship to a prestigious Japanese university. He and two other American friends attended a rooftop party, which apparently morphed into a party where the "alcohol amplified" and someone busted out some weed. When it reached the point where people were sharing "marijuana cigarettes", it wasn't enough for this kid to just leave (an Irish Exit, as they say). He felt prompted to let everyone know that "they could do as they wished," but he wouldn't participate in such activities. As he and one of his friends were leaving the building, the police arrived and eventually arrested everyone whose fingers smelled of MJ. The American who stayed had only been passing the joint around, and didn't ever smoke. Still, he got expelled and had to return home to America.

While there are some things that bug me about the story, I was generally fine with the message. However, the discussion afterward made me a bit uncomfortable. Much emphasis was places on how that kid's life was "ruined" by his choice to stay at a party with marijuana, while the kids who left eventually went on to great success. One leader felt compelled to tell the YM about how the temptations don't stop when you become an adult. He related that, as a firefighter, he is often presented with opportunities to attend parties put on by fellow firefighters. He told us how he always asks if there will be alcohol at the party, and when they say yes, he always takes the opportunity to let them know that he won't be attending because he "do[es]n't drink and [he] do[es]n't attend parties where alcohol is being consumed.

Sadly, i'm new enough in the ward that I chickened out and didn't rebut his asinine statements. And I didn't really want to make a scene in front of the YM, but today I'm feeling like I should have pointed out that, as an adult, there is nothing wrong with attending parties where alcohol is being served.

Anyway, this is sort of an incomplete thought, and I don't have time to wrap it up right now. But I wanted to let you all know what I learned in church yesterday.

See, this is why it's a silly idea to show conference talks. If the adult leaders were bound and determined to shove this lesson down the boys' throats ('cause I guarantee you the youth didn't plan and execute this idea, despite the fact that they, not the adults, are in charge of mutual night activities), a much better video would have been the Armor of God clip from the Seminary New Testament DVD. You've got sword fighting, bandits, and a hot chick handing a dude a beer and then taking him into the back room for some implied naughty time, resulting in a delayed mission. All without the career-limiting-advice of avoiding places where people might do Non-Mormon Things. Besides, how many stories have we heard in conference about how this GA or that attended some function and declined the alcohol, even when expected to drink, and how that made all the difference?

[smokymountainrain]

There are tons of people who don't drink for reasons that have nothing to do with religion. Get your club soda with a lime wedge, mix and mingle, if it gets sloppy, check out and head home discretely. This shouldn't be complicated. If you say something like, "I can't, I'm mormon and don't believe in that," you are a socially awkward dufus with judgmental implications to others. If you simple say, "no thank you," or "I'll have diet coke," or whatever else, most people will think nothing of it. At least in polite society.

On the flip side, if you do imbibe, it's never a good idea to do so to excess at work functions. Except the Christmas party because everybody else is hammered too.

That may be true if we include all 6 billion or so people in the world, but in any given work group, that is most definitely not true in my experience. When I've lived and worked outside of Utah, I've been one of, at most, 2-5 people in the group who aren't drinking. And in some cases 1 or 2 of those 4 or 5 people aren't drinking purely because I am not drinking and they feel bad I'm the only prude at at the party and they think misery should have company.

Despite my nitpicking, I of course agree with your main point.

[TripletDaddy]

So the switch just turns when a YM/YW reaches 18 since now they're legally considered an adult? IMO, most YM/YW are capable of exercising (or learning to) the same good judgement that most adults possess. My advice to my teenagers is that true friends will not pressure someone into drinking when its against their values. It's not easy to navigate but the fact is that if a parent restircts a teenager to only attend parties where alchol is served or require them to leave if alchol is present, then the only social activities they will attend are LDS ones. And when they reach adulthood the only social activities they will attend as adults will also be Mormon ones. No wonder LDS are so insular.

One of my teenagers once asked to drive a car to a party but there was a conflict with the cars. I asked him to get a ride since I wanted to drive the available car. His reply was that he was pretty sure that alcohol would be at the party and he wanted the ability to leave the party if it got out of hand or didn't want to risk being driven by someone who was drinking. He drove to the party and returned home from it sober and had a great time.

you lost me here. If my 16 year old children ask me to borrow my car because they are going to a party with alcohol, im going to tell them to knock it off and then basically kick them in the crotch a few times.

[Pheidippides]

That may be true if we include all 6 billion or so people in the world, but in any given work group, that is most definitely not true in my experience. When I've lived and worked outside of Utah, I've been one of, at most, 2-5 people in the group who aren't drinking. And in some cases 1 or 2 of those 4 or 5 people aren't drinking purely because I am not drinking and they feel bad I'm the only prude at at the party and they think misery should have company.

Despite my nitpicking, I of course agree with your main point.

Our experience varies then. At my last two jobs I was one of many - a not insignificant minority. One person has an alcohol allergy, one is a recovered alcoholic, one just doesn't like the taste, and a few had religious reasons (not always mormon). Nobody made a big deal of it on either end and we all had a good time together.

But I think most people agree us. It's a different thing to be the guy who doesn't drink as opposed to the judgmental religious weirdo who doesn't drink. I keep trying to tell my BIL this but he doesn't understand and keeps getting ostracized as a result.

[Joe Public]

I've never been to a church party that couldn't have been just a little better if all the adults had a drink or two.

Amen.

[Y84it]

So the switch just turns when a YM/YW reaches 18 since now they're legally considered an adult? IMO, most YM/YW are capable of exercising (or learning to) the same good judgement that most adults possess. My advice to my teenagers is that true friends will not pressure someone into drinking when its against their values. It's not easy to navigate but the fact is that if a parent restircts a teenager to only attend parties where alchol is served or require them to leave if alchol is present, then the only social activities they will attend are LDS ones. And when they reach adulthood the only social activities they will attend as adults will also be Mormon ones. No wonder LDS are so insular.

One of my teenagers once asked to drive a car to a party but there was a conflict with the cars. I asked him to get a ride since I wanted to drive the available car. His reply was that he was pretty sure that alcohol would be at the party and he wanted the ability to leave the party if it got out of hand or didn't want to risk being driven by someone who was drinking. He drove to the party and returned home from it sober and had a great time.

Great Points. I agree.

[Pelado]

I get the premise of "Avoid the very presence of evil" but I don't agree that consuming alcohol in itself is evil. I think drinking too much can turn it to a place you may not want to be. I have been to a bunch of parties where alcohol is consumed, it’s what people do in social settings. In many cases being the one not drinking in the party brings up good conversation about my beliefs and has been a positive experince in those situations. With all that said I do think it is a whole lot different with teenagers because a law is being broken. Not to mention you are easily influenced by your pears at that age so I would advise my kids to leave any party where alcohol is being served.

So to sum up... for the YM stay away but as an adult you can adapt.

I, too, can be easily influenced by my pears.

[PaloAltoCougar]

I, too, can be easily influenced by my pears.

By their fruits, ye shall know them.

[Paperback Writer]

you lost me here. If my 16 year old children ask me to borrow my car because they are going to a party with alcohol, im going to tell them to knock it off and then basically kick them in the crotch a few times.

And then the teenager will lie to their parent and say that they are going to their Mormon friend's house to work on a school project and wind up at the party anyway. Except now they will be pissed off at their parent and decide to rebel and drink. Then, they will catch a ride home from the party from a friend who is also drunk. Fortunately, the driver will decide he's too drunk to drive and park the car and both will attempt to walk home. Unfortunately, they get lost and walk done a ravine. As they cross a muddy stream, they get devoured by crocodiles.