I learned in church today

[TripletDaddy]

Old enough to drop acid with Robin and his kid.

One of the most selfless things ever written on these boards was Findo's offer to "shepherd" Little Robin through his drug experimentation phase. we need more parents like that.

[TripletDaddy]

And then the teenager will lie to their parent and say that they are going to their Mormon friend's house to work on a school project and wind up at the party anyway. Except now they will be pissed off at their parent and decide to rebel and drink. Then, they will catch a ride home from the party from a friend who is also drunk. Fortunately, the driver will decide he's too drunk to drive and park the car and both will attempt to walk home. Unfortunately, they get lost and walk done a ravine. As they cross a muddy stream, they get devoured by crocodiles.

Possibly, if your kids are liars. Apparently yours are. No problem.

I wasn't LDS growing up and I didnt drink because one, I didnt want to, and two, I thought it was stupid. So i never lied to my parents about drinking or doing drugs. You seem resigned to the notion that all teenagers are going to drink and do drugs.

[smokymountainrain]

FYI, I wasn't serious.

I guess I deserve one of these

[imanihonjin]

All this talk of kids raises an issue my wife and I are discussing and that is going to get Japan Man's panties in a real twist. Obviously I do not consider responsible alcohol use to be a problem. Key word responsible. I do not consider drinking and driving, binge drinking, etc. to be responsible by any stretch and I think that most everybody here would agree with that.

I have a teenager now. Under the law, I am permitted to let her drink whatever I feel appropriate as long as it is in my presence.

My quandary is this: I don't feel like an bright line entry into alcohol use at 21 - the age my consent is no longer needed - to be advisable. That makes the secrecy and allure of keggers in HS that much more, because it is forbidden. So I plan on being permissive in the walls of my home so responsible habits can be learned and the mystique will be hopefully removed. But I'm unsure how this interplays with age and driving except that I don't want driving and alcohol education to happen at the same time at all. I'm still thinking this out because it's completely new territory for me.

Not sure why this would get my panties in a twist. Not that you are looking from permission from me or anyone else, but while your approach would not be my own, I don't have an issue with what you are contemplating.

[TripletDaddy]

All this talk of kids raises an issue my wife and I are discussing and that is going to get Japan Man's panties in a real twist. Obviously I do not consider responsible alcohol use to be a problem. Key word responsible. I do not consider drinking and driving, binge drinking, etc. to be responsible by any stretch and I think that most everybody here would agree with that.

I have a teenager now. Under the law, I am permitted to let her drink whatever I feel appropriate as long as it is in my presence.

My quandary is this: I don't feel like an bright line entry into alcohol use at 21 - the age my consent is no longer needed - to be advisable. That makes the secrecy and allure of keggers in HS that much more, because it is forbidden. So I plan on being permissive in the walls of my home so responsible habits can be learned and the mystique will be hopefully removed. But I'm unsure how this interplays with age and driving except that I don't want driving and alcohol education to happen at the same time at all. I'm still thinking this out because it's completely new territory for me.

why not teach your kids to avoid alcohol? whats wrong with that? buying alcohol for your underage kid and sitting there drinking it with them seems like an unproductive thing to do.

[cougjunkie]

why not teach your kids to avoid alcohol? whats wrong with that? buying alcohol for your underage kid and sitting there drinking it with them seems like an unproductive thing to do.

Sounds like the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. She is going to drink anyways so might as well do it under my control in my presence. Very responsible. She is going to have sex anyways too, do you want to watch that?

[imanihonjin]

Sounds like the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. She is going to drink anyways so might as well do it under my control in my presence. Very responsible. She is going to have sex anyways too, do you want to watch that?

Again, while my approach will be to refrain from drinking alcohol, I don't have a problem with a parent teaching a child responsible consumption of alcohol. Sex is something typically between two people in private, while drinking is often done socially, so I don't think this is apt comparison. To me there is a huge difference from being indifferent to your kids going to keggers and allowing your kid to have wine with dinner or a beer during the game with their parents.

[Pheidippides]

why not teach your kids to avoid alcohol? whats wrong with that? buying alcohol for your underage kid and sitting there drinking it with them seems like an unproductive thing to do.

Because *that* has worked over the last 50 years. But you keep trying I guess. Maybe cougjunkie could give us some insight into how well he listened as a teenager.

[Paperback Writer]

Double standards? What is the double standard. Sorry, I don't really want my kid to think its okay to be at a party where underage drinking is happening. Will it happen, sure it will, but I hope they are responsible enough to realize the issue and to not be present and participate. This is not a double standard as I would never be present at a social activity where underage drinking was occurring, nor would I have a blanket prohibition on my kids being at an event where responsible adults were imbibing.

The vast majority of teenage kids are idiots because it is a symptom of growing up and maturing. Drinking only adds to the stupidity. Getting into a car with a drunk teen at the wheel isn't the only danger to be concerned over.

Simply put, are there any environments that are prohibited for your kids? I am guessing you wouldn't be down if he was hanging with drug dealers, as long as he wasn't slinging himself, right? Strip joints? Bank robberies? etc? I think we all have boundaries for our kids and it is more a matter of where to draw the line. Underage drinking parties are off limits for my kids.

From a teenage viewpoint, an adult is hanging out with his adult friends and some are drinking: that's OK. But a teenager is not allowed to hang out with his friends if some decide to drink: Not OK. That's a double standard. It's not underage drinking - it's whether one can hang out with peers who are drinking. I noticed you stated that its OK for your kids to attend a social occasion where adults drink responsibly but left off the responsible part when describing underage drinking. Perhaps its a good assumption that minors will not drink responsibly but that's also a blanket statement. Many minors can and do drink responsibly and I don't insist that my kids leave a party when they spot someone holding a beer. I expect them to leave if the party gets out of control and I do expect that they do not participate in drinking. I don't spell out which environments are prohibited for my kids, I expect that they will use their own judgement and set appropriate boundaries. So strip clubs are obviously off limits as well as any known drug houses. I don't have to spell this out for my kids. My kids have been offered drugs a few times but exercised good judgement. The last time one was offered a joint was at Heritage Halls. Maybe I should have drawn the line and not allowed him to attend BYU and hang out with drug dealers.

[TripletDaddy]

Because *that* has worked over the last 50 years. But you keep trying I guess. Maybe cougjunkie could give us some insight into how well he listened as a teenager.

I already gave my own first hand experience. Avoidance worked fine for me and it had nothing to do with religion. You seem to be suggesting that alcohol consumption is inevitable. That is a false premise.

[smokymountainrain]

I already gave my own first hand experience. Avoidance worked fine for me and it had nothing to do with religion. You seem to be suggesting that alcohol consumption is inevitable. That is a false premise.

Not to mention, in addition to you, religion or not, there are several members of this board whose parents taught them to avoid alcohol and it did work. I would sincerely like to know why Nik thinks it hasn't worked over the last 50 years.

[imanihonjin]

From a teenage viewpoint, an adult is hanging out with his adult friends and some are drinking: that's OK. But a teenager is not allowed to hang out with his friends if some decide to drink: Not OK. That's a double standard. It's not underage drinking - it's whether one can hang out with peers who are drinking. I noticed you stated that its OK for your kids to attend a social occasion where adults drink responsibly but left off the responsible part when describing underage drinking. Perhaps its a good assumption that minors will not drink responsibly but that's also a blanket statement. Many minors can and do drink responsibly and I don't insist that my kids leave a party when they spot someone holding a beer. I expect them to leave if the party gets out of control and I do expect that they do not participate in drinking. I don't spell out which environments are prohibited for my kids, I expect that they will use their own judgement and set appropriate boundaries. So strip clubs are obviously off limits as well as any known drug houses. I don't have to spell this out for my kids. My kids have been offered drugs a few times but exercised good judgement. The last time one was offered a joint was at Heritage Halls. Maybe I should have drawn the line and not allowed him to attend BYU and hang out with drug dealers.

Sorry, it is irresponsible for their to be alcohol at an underage party. Kids are idiots and there will be some jackass or jackasses at nearly everyone of these parties who loses control. Again there is no double standard as the standard is simply this, you and I aren't going to be somewhere where the law is being actively broken and where there is a significant likelihood that others are going to lose control.

I also don't understand the bolded part. You say don't spell out which environments are prohibited but then state that strip clubs and drug houses are off limits? Aren't you afraid if you tell them that, they are just going to lie to you and tell you they are handing with their Mormon buddies and the next thing you know they are in a crocodile's belly?

[TripletDaddy]

Not to mention, religion or not, there are several members of this board whose parents taught them to avoid alcohol and it did work. I would sincerely like to know why Nik things it hasn't worked over the last 50 years.

Yes, of course. Where does the 50 years come from anyway? why 50 years??

it is a tenuous position to imply that underage alcohol consumption is inevitable and that kids will lie to their parents otherwise in order to experience it.

[cougjunkie]

Yes, of course. Where does the 50 years come from anyway? why 50 years??

it is a tenuous position to imply that underage alcohol consumption is inevitable and that kids will lie to their parents otherwise in order to experience it.

Prohibition?

[imanihonjin]

Prohibition?

Pretty sure prohibition ended several decades prior to 1964.