I learned in church today

[Northwestcoug]

It may very well have been UFO-shaped. But it doesn't take a great deal of imagination to think of plenty of other alterations or iterations that could match that the description in Ether just as well as the UFO model. Personally, I'm just mentally biased to the UFO model because it's what my primary teachers told me. I doubt I'm the only one. The description in Ether gives some detail, but it's hardly enough to give us a conclusive picture.


What exactly is in the record? Practically nothing. In terms of the 344-day journey, Moroni sums it all up in about two verses. I couldn't even describe my last week at work with any real detail in the number of words he uses. Nephi never mentioned anyone peeing off the side of his boat either, but I bet at least his rebellious brothers Laman and Lemuel did...

It certainly would be nice to have details. But let's be reasonable. They took flocks, herds, and food for both them and their animals. Just how big were those eight barges? If you want to hypothesize multiple stops along the way, that alleviates the problem of space somewhat. But what about sanitation? What about water? What about sufficient oxygen pressure to get into the barges?

I appreciate and respect your opinion on the BOM's historical veracity, but if taken at face value, this was clearly a case of God inspiring someone with technological knowledge beyond his time, and then ensuring that natural forces didn't doom the journey. There really is no other explanation, and the Book of Mormon itself says as much...

And that's something I can't argue with. If you take it at face value, then you have to believe that God miraculously guided them. There is no other way. But if that's your position, then we really shouldn't be trying to hypothesize ways the journey was made more plausible. Who cares about the myriad problems with the story? It's God's prerogative to produce miracles. In fact, it's even a more faith-promoting story if you keep it incredible. Don't worry about invoking multiple stops in the journey to make it more plausible.

[Goatnapper'96]

If they really wanted to be rebellious, they WOULDN'T have peed off the side of the boat. I'm just saying.

With Nephi's ability to shock methinks pissing off the boat would have been wise.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1r2t9paL9g"]This kid pissing on an electric fence - YouTube[/nomedia]

[shoganai]

It certainly would be nice to have details. But let's be reasonable. They took flocks, herds, and food for both them and their animals. Just how big were those eight barges? If you want to hypothesize multiple stops along the way, that alleviates the problem of space somewhat. But what about sanitation? What about water? What about sufficient oxygen pressure to get into the barges?



And that's something I can't argue with. If you take it at face value, then you have to believe that God miraculously guided them. There is no other way. But if that's your position, then we really shouldn't be trying to hypothesize ways the journey was made more plausible. Who cares about the myriad problems with the story? It's God's prerogative to produce miracles. In fact, it's even a more faith-promoting story if you keep it incredible. Don't worry about invoking multiple stops in the journey to make it more plausible.

Just speaking for myself, I enjoy the FARMS-type speculation and educated guessing on fairly trivial things like stops along the south Asian coastline for the same reasons I enjoy historical biographies and in-depth documentaries.

Whether I'm reading about the Civil War or a Book of Mormon story, I feel like I learn more and can better relate to things with more practical, human context. Just saying it was all a big, wondrous miracle is fine, but doesn't connect with me in any special way, because even miraculous things have a very gritty, human context to those directly involved. But, that's coming from someone who has always assumed and believed the BOM was historical. If you believe it's allegorical at best, then it really makes no difference.

[Northwestcoug]

Just speaking for myself, I enjoy the FARMS-type speculation and educated guessing on fairly trivial things like stops along the south Asian coastline for the same reasons I enjoy historical biographies and in-depth documentaries.

Whether I'm reading about the Civil War or a Book of Mormon story, I feel like I learn more and can better relate to things with more practical, human context. Just saying it was all a big, wondrous miracle is fine, but doesn't connect with me in any special way, because even miraculous things have a very gritty, human context to those directly involved. But, that's coming from someone who has always assumed and believed the BOM was historical. If you believe it's allegorical at best, then it really makes no difference.

Fair enough.

[Seldom Seen Smith]

Do you break out in hives and have your sunday ruined whenever the story comes up about Ammon taking care of the King's horses after he severed hundreds if not thousands of limbs singlehandedly?

Without the Brother of Jared story Brother Joseph would have been prevented his coolest trolling story of all time....."uh your son's name is Maronhi-Moreancumr...uh that was what the birth certificate for the Brother of Jared said just that his name was lost when the tower of babel came crashing down" and Wuap suddenly found gainful employment!

Mahonri is a freakin great story but Zelph and Adam's alter in Missouri top it.

[clackamascoug]

I was not looking forward to presenting this week’s Gospel Doctrine lesson (Ether 1-6). Even as a teenager, I thought the Jaredite story was filled with absurdities. Among them, the notion that many people, livestock, a year’s supply of food and water, a swarm of freakin’ bees, among other things, travel in a sealed up boat with only a hole at the top (or bottom as the case may be) for nearly a year struck me as impossible. Add to that the ferocious winds and monstrous waves that turn everything upside (or submerge the whole boat), and you’ve got a rather intolerable sanitation problem I reckon. And why a year? Forget the ferocious winds—a gentle breeze of, say, 10 mph would be enough to push a boat back and forth across any ocean multiple times in the course of 344 days. I could go on, but you get the idea.

So I shared my concerns with the class, and apparently disturbed a few, including one who insisted that everything in the BoM is literally true, and another who asked, “There’s so much good in the book; why are you focusing on this?” I came around to the idea that whether the story is literally true or not doesn’t matter much to me. On a literal level, it holds little value for me as I doubt I’ll ever have to duplicate any of the leviathan tasks the Jaredites apparently undertook. But as an allegory, the story is a pretty powerful representation of what I’ve been asked to do: provide for my family temporally and spiritually, endure an awfully long life’s journey in the hope of someday reaching the promised land, see my life occasionally get tossed upside down and buffeted by ferocious winds, and in the midst of the storms, like the Jaredites I should be singing praises and giving thanks for the tender mercies, rather than bemoan my outcast state. Life can be a mess sometimes, but the examples and experiences of others, even in mythic form, can provide strength and guidance to muddle through.

At least we had a rousing discussion, and several were kind enough to express support afterward. But that might be because I hand out lots of chocolate each week to those who do their reading.

http://rt.com/news/apocalypse-china-survival-pods-004/

What a timely article... at least for PAC.

[clackamascoug]

I learned in church today that the "Emergency Broadcast System" is sent to cell phones. At 1:47 pm (pst) there was an audible buzz from several phones in the congregation. The speaker stopped, and said "What is that?" The EBS had just sent out a warning about a potential blizzard. It was really strange.

[Moliere]

I learned that next year we move to 1pm church and that means we have the PH assignment to take down chairs and take out the garbage except for the garbage in the women's bathroom at which point I guess we ordain a woman so she can clean out the feminine products garbage.

[PaloAltoCougar]

I spent most of yesterday's lesson discussing Ether 12 in the light of the Newton school tragedy. Thanks to a fine member of the class, we also had an interesting discussion of 12:27 ("...for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them."). The guy had polio when he was five and his legs are shriveled. But he manages to walk, with great difficulty, over short stretches using a pole to steady himself. I took a big risk and asked him if he thought of his weakness as much of a strength. He said it wasn't, but it has helped him discover a lot of other strengths he didn't know he had. He is the only one in his family to have attended college, and he has degrees from Cal and MIT. He joined the Church as an adult and has found peace with his physical condition where he had once felt anger.

I thought of him again this morning reading IDGOMW's post this morning, and have been thinking about how the "weakness" of others can make so many more of us stronger by observing how well they deal with adversity.

[Katy Lied]

Mahonri is a freakin great story

I love to pass this web page around when I teach this lesson, especially since pretty much every family in the ward has someone buried here.

[OceanBlue]

I learned that lots of Mormons go on vacation during Christmas. We topped 200 yesterday. Thats usually a middle of the summer number.

[Moliere]

I learned that the New Jerusalem is actually the City of Enoch that will come back down from heaven. I challenged the teacher by noting that it doesn't come close to mentioning the city of Enoch anywhere in the verses we read, but I guess the manual specifically says it is the city of Enoch.

I think the manual is wrong.

[Katy Lied]

It's tradition for our ward choir to sing Born is the Light of the World every Christmas. Our choir director is absolutely fearless and will sing this song come hell or high water, and whether the choir has the horses to sing it or not. It is such a beautiful song, but the money line during the chorus absolutely demands sopranos who can control their pitch and dynamics, and bless their hearts, not a forte (hah) of our ward choir.

I didn't realize that the woman who wrote this song is LDS, and releases this music free for non-commercial performances.

Anyway, every year I listen to the performance, and my mind fills in the missing notes, or corrects for the shrill pitch tones, and it moves me enough to make me cry. Then after church, I rush home and listen to it again on Youtube, usually this performance by a chorus in Poland.

[YOUTUBE]0hY8dBDDUJc[/YOUTUBE]

[Green Monstah]

I learned that just as Abraham was commanded to sacrifice Isaac, I have been commanded to attend tithing settlement. So unless an angel intervenes from signing up, I should be sure to do it. Now that is a zealous ward clerk.

The funny thing is that I procrastinate on this every year, give the same spiel, then end up going. I was on my way to sign up after he asked politely, but when he went all Abraham on me, I reversed course and took my seat.

[The Fourth Nephite]

I learned that the New Jerusalem is actually the City of Enoch that will come back down from heaven. I challenged the teacher by noting that it doesn't come close to mentioning the city of Enoch anywhere in the verses we read, but I guess the manual specifically says it is the city of Enoch.

I think the manual is wrong.

I've never heard that either. I also think the manual is wrong.