I learned in church today

[Northwestcoug]

I learned that the New Jerusalem is actually the City of Enoch that will come back down from heaven. I challenged the teacher by noting that it doesn't come close to mentioning the city of Enoch anywhere in the verses we read, but I guess the manual specifically says it is the city of Enoch.

I think the manual is wrong.

I've never heard that either. I also think the manual is wrong.

Heretics.

[SoCalCoug]

I learned that lots of Mormons go on vacation during Christmas. We topped 200 yesterday. Thats usually a middle of the summer number.

In addition to our Christmas-themed program, with the primary singing, we had two babies blessed and a returned missionary giving his report. Busy day at our ward.

[Pheidippides]

I learned that the New Jerusalem is actually the City of Enoch that will come back down from heaven. I challenged the teacher by noting that it doesn't come close to mentioning the city of Enoch anywhere in the verses we read, but I guess the manual specifically says it is the city of Enoch.

I think the manual is wrong.

The manual does say this. The scriptures it uses to back this up are very weak sauce.

Our gospel doctrine teacher did not teach this but instead opted to tie ether into a nice Christmas lesson.

[Moliere]

I learned that out of 5 sacrament meetings in December, only the musical Christmas program had a theme that was centered on Christ. We've learned about tithing, family, and the importance of church traditions.

[Pheidippides]

I learned that out of 5 sacrament meetings in December, only the musical Christmas program had a theme that was centered on Christ. We've learned about tithing, family, and the importance of church traditions.

Ugh.

Our Sunday School lesson is on charity and how it's more important than whether or not you drink coffee, so be nice to your neighbor.

[pellegrino]

I learned that out of 5 sacrament meetings in December, only the musical Christmas program had a theme that was centered on Christ. We've learned about tithing, family, and the importance of church traditions.

Is that any different from any other month? Don't forget that this is a church where Easter gets bumped in favor of conference.

[LA Ute]

The manual does say this. The scriptures it uses to back this up are very weak sauce.

Our gospel doctrine teacher did not teach this but instead opted to tie ether into a nice Christmas lesson.

I have never heard that taught, so I was curious and dug a little.

The Lord explained to Enoch that in this future mortal Zion the Saints, unlike the wicked of the world, would be looking forward with anticipation “for the time of my coming” (Moses 7:62). Expanding on this, the Prophet Joseph Smith taught that “the Lord had spoken of the future glory of Zion—of the city, the location of which the Elders were to testify; also of the glory of the temple, with its future cloud by day and pillar of fire by night; of the future union of this New-World Zion with the ancient Zion of Enoch, where the Lord will make His abode” (History of the Church, 3:xxxiv).

The Lord revealed to Enoch that “then shalt thou and all thy city meet [the elect in the last days] there, and we will receive them into our bosom” (Moses 7:63). With the two Zions united, the Son of Man would come “to dwell on the earth in righteousness for the space of a thousand years” (Moses 7:65). Then the earth would rest. Enoch then “saw the day of the righteous, the hour of their redemption, and received a fulness of joy” (Moses 7:67).

It's not the most crystal-clear teaching I've ever seen and if I had to teach it I'd just mention it as one of the interesting things JS taught and move on. I personally don't think obscure prophecies like that are as important as how to apply discipleship in our daily lives. I have a hunch you and I agree on that.

[Pheidippides]

I have never heard that taught, so I was curious and dug a little.



It's not the most crystal-clear teaching I've ever seen and if I had to teach it I'd just mention it as one of the interesting things JS taught and move on. I personally don't think obscure prophecies like that are as important as how to apply discipleship in our daily lives. I have a hunch you and I agree on that.

Dang it. You're supposed to let me mock you, and how can I do that when we agree?!?

[PaloAltoCougar]

I've used Jared Anderson's podcasts on Mormon Stories Sunday School to assist as I prepare some of my lessons. This week he included a link to a transcript of a talk given to a local elders quorum by Russell Hancock, a member of the Menlo Park Stake Presidency. The talk is really good, and I'm going to use portions of it today in discussing the different ways people receive testimonies. His experiences as a teenager and missionary mirror my own.

The most famous instance of [the principle you can pray for an answer and you'll get a burning in the bosom] is the promise at the end of Moroni where we’re told to test the gospel and seek a manifestation of the spirit. We’re also taught that the manifestation of the spirit will be the Holy Ghost revealing truth to us. So that’s one way of ascertaining truth.

Now here’s the true confession: I’ve never had it. This has never come to me. That’s not how I’ve obtained my truth.

Now, for most of my life, especially while praying, this is something that led to the sense that I was alone, and led me to feel like I was a second class Mormon--second rate because I couldn’t accomplish this sensory, infallible encounter with the Holy Ghost. I thought that there was something wrong with me.

He goes on with some interesting observations and a great testimony, including, "we’re living in an exciting time, when the church (I think) is asking more of us, asking us to be more like Ammon who served the king, who was willing to serve all his days. The church is asking us to be more like Ammon and ... less like Samuel the Lamanite: declarative, standing on the wall, shouting the truth...."

[Pheidippides]

I've used Jared Anderson's podcasts on Mormon Stories Sunday School to assist as I prepare some of my lessons. This week he included a link to a transcript of a talk given to a local elders quorum by Russell Hancock, a member of the Menlo Park Stake Presidency. The talk is really good, and I'm going to use portions of it today in discussing the different ways people receive testimonies. His experiences as a teenager and missionary mirror my own.

The most famous instance of [the principle you can pray for an answer and you'll get a burning in the bosom] is the promise at the end of Moroni where we’re told to test the gospel and seek a manifestation of the spirit. We’re also taught that the manifestation of the spirit will be the Holy Ghost revealing truth to us. So that’s one way of ascertaining truth.

Now here’s the true confession: I’ve never had it. This has never come to me. That’s not how I’ve obtained my truth.

Now, for most of my life, especially while praying, this is something that led to the sense that I was alone, and led me to feel like I was a second class Mormon--second rate because I couldn’t accomplish this sensory, infallible encounter with the Holy Ghost. I thought that there was something wrong with me.

He goes on with some interesting observations and a great testimony, including, "we’re living in an exciting time, when the church (I think) is asking more of us, asking us to be more like Ammon who served the king, who was willing to serve all his days. The church is asking us to be more like Ammon and ... less like Samuel the Lamanite: declarative, standing on the wall, shouting the truth...."

I read that in prep for my lesson as well (I use the same podcast).

[Jeff Lebowski]

I've used Jared Anderson's podcasts on Mormon Stories Sunday School to assist as I prepare some of my lessons. This week he included a link to a transcript of a talk given to a local elders quorum by Russell Hancock, a member of the Menlo Park Stake Presidency. The talk is really good, and I'm going to use portions of it today in discussing the different ways people receive testimonies. His experiences as a teenager and missionary mirror my own.

The most famous instance of [the principle you can pray for an answer and you'll get a burning in the bosom] is the promise at the end of Moroni where we’re told to test the gospel and seek a manifestation of the spirit. We’re also taught that the manifestation of the spirit will be the Holy Ghost revealing truth to us. So that’s one way of ascertaining truth.

Now here’s the true confession: I’ve never had it. This has never come to me. That’s not how I’ve obtained my truth.

Now, for most of my life, especially while praying, this is something that led to the sense that I was alone, and led me to feel like I was a second class Mormon--second rate because I couldn’t accomplish this sensory, infallible encounter with the Holy Ghost. I thought that there was something wrong with me.

He goes on with some interesting observations and a great testimony, including, "we’re living in an exciting time, when the church (I think) is asking more of us, asking us to be more like Ammon who served the king, who was willing to serve all his days. The church is asking us to be more like Ammon and ... less like Samuel the Lamanite: declarative, standing on the wall, shouting the truth...."

That is a great talk. Thanks for link. I would kill to have a stake president like that.

A few excerpts that I liked:

First, and I want to say this very clearly: if you happen to be somebody who wonders; if you happen to be somebody who is experiencing doubt about the church or about the gospel or any of the great existential questions, if you happen to be a person who wonders I say: Marvelous! How marvelous that is! This is your home. You belong here with us, and you are badly wanted. I want to be very clear about this, the Stake Presidency wants to have a community of saints who are probing, who are discovering, who are testing, who are faith testing, and who are making serious, critical investigation. We’re not trying to cultivate a stake of passive believers, mouthing platitudes. We are trying to cultivate active seekers. This is the kind of stake that we seek to lead. So that’s the first thing I want to make clear, that if you are finding doubts or asking questions, this is a safe and appropriate place to do that. And I can say that because my own Hosanna have passed through the crucible of doubt.

Thescriptures make it perfectly clear that there is a place for doubt and for skepticism and that this is part of the journey. Remember in the book of Mark when the man seizes upon the Savior and says “Lord I believe, help thou mine unbelief,” and how the Savior looked especially kindly upon him. Count me as one of those.

Not only that, there is yet so much truth that need to be revealed, that needs to be discovered. Remember we believe in continuing revelation. So there is a great deal more for us to do. I fear that many of us confuse faith with depth, and this we must never do. So the second observation I wanted to make is that all of us have a duty to examine our faith, and to be breaking open our heads all over the great questions that our theology poses. It’s breathtaking if you allow yourself to participate in that kind of an exercise.

Here’s the third observation that I would like to make. The church is a dynamic organization. By dynamic I mean it changes. The gospel is timeless but the Church is not. I have lived long enough to witness the Church make many great and significant changes in my lifetime. Significant things, things like doctrines, teachings, or practices about women, about priesthood, about the garments we wear, among others. So this is significant. We should all understand that the church is a dynamic thing, and one that will grow and change and mature, and we will witness it in our lifetimes.

Here’s my fourth observation. I want to suggest that we have a role to play in that evolution. We should be agents in helping discover truth, agents in helping the church grow and increase and improve as an institution. Now we make distinctions of course between the gospel and the church right? There was a great talk in this past conference about that, the difference between the church and the gospel. Read that and apply it to our stake as well. Over the 9 years of our stake presidency I’m sure you’ll see many things come and go, changes made. We want you to be enlisted in the change. We want you to feel like you are agents in this. We want you to be innovative with us, and entrepreneurial and creative. We want you to bring your best thinking and we want you to help us.

[LA Ute]

Dang it. You're supposed to let me mock you, and how can I do that when we agree?!?

[San Juan Sun]

I was out walking the 2 year old during sacrament, and paused at the employment listings board. Two jobs posted included bartender and "job coach". The idea of an unemployed person becoming a job coach made me smile.

[SCcoug]

It's been said before but I'll say it again. There is no worse sacrament meeting practice than giving a talk about another talk.

[Jacob]

It's been said before but I'll say it again. There is no worse sacrament meeting practice than giving a talk about another talk.

Amen. Except that my wife just tested me that todays meeting was uninterupted hymn singing...the entire meeting...to show paced organ music. That might be worse in all but a few special wards.