I learned in church today

[PaloAltoCougar]

One of these days, I'd like to do an informal poll after telling the story of the prodigal son to find out with which of the three main characters (father, prodigal son, and the other son) we most strongly identify. My guess is that most LDS associate themselves with the "good" son, who stayed home, honored his father, did what he was told, and will inherit all, and believe that the story is a message to them to be more tolerant of others who haven't lived so righteously. There may be a few who see themselves in the role of the father, who loved, sacrificed, and gave their all for their children, and have joy in those who love and serve God, and whose hearts break for those who are lost. I wonder how many think of themselves as the Prodigal, who fell away, came to himself, and is making the long, hard trek back home.

However many fit in that last category, it's probably not enough. There is not likely any among us who at one point or another in their lives have not been cast in the role of the prodigal.

I love teaching that lesson for the reasons you describe. I think we play each of the three roles at various times in our lives, but ultimately we're each the prodigal son, heartbroken because of our failings, and hoping for a father who is looking for us from afar.

[Pheidippides]

One of these days, I'd like to do an informal poll after telling the story of the prodigal son to find out with which of the three main characters (father, prodigal son, and the other son) we most strongly identify. My guess is that most LDS associate themselves with the "good" son, who stayed home, honored his father, did what he was told, and will inherit all, and believe that the story is a message to them to be more tolerant of others who haven't lived so righteously. There may be a few who see themselves in the role of the father, who loved, sacrificed, and gave their all for their children, and have joy in those who love and serve God, and whose hearts break for those who are lost. I wonder how many think of themselves as the Prodigal, who fell away, came to himself, and is making the long, hard trek back home.

However many fit in that last category, it's probably not enough. There is not likely any among us who at one point or another in their lives have not been cast in the role of the prodigal.

You would know as much as anybody, I suppose, but I've read in more than one place that the concept of Prodigal (when we look at the actual meaning) does not refer to the wayward but to the older son, and that the entire story is about him and his issues and not the younger. There is a book called The Prodigal God that a friend gave me that explored that theme. How accurate the analysis is I don't know.

[Dwight Schr-ute]

If you really wanted to have fun, you'd show up alone to drive them somewhere. If they refused (they probably have a mission rule to not ride alone with a man) then I'd just drive off and wish them luck.

Or just take them some place they didn't ask to go.

One of the sister ward missionaries made an interesting comment in Gospel Essentials today. The lesson was on the lost tribes of Isreal and how we are all brothers and sisters regardless of faith, background, or skin color. She says, "Ever since I started teaching seminary, I've been surprised to over hear several comments from our youth that were phenomenally racist. I actually think that being racist can be just as bad as smoking a cigarette."

All in all, I appreciated her comment, I just felt that the final part was a bit amusing. On a seperate note, for priesthood today, we combined with the High Priests. The lesson was on fatherhood taught by a high priest who is the principle of a jr. high. He used most of his time showing a few clips from recent conference talks as well as a couple of Mormon Messages. Nothing too special but the message resonated with me and has inspired me to give my kids more of the parts of me that I'm proud of and less of the pasts that I find embarrassing and detrimental.

[RC Vikings]

It wasn't really church but it was a Christmas party with several ward members so it felt like church. I was talking to our old bishop who was also a bishop up on campus during the 80's. He told me how the VCR was a major cause of moral problems up on campus. He said kids use to go to basketball games, to dances or out to eat and then the VCR came along and all hell broke loose. The kids would stay home watching one, two or even three movies a night under a blanket and that was a recipe for trouble. Damn those VCR's.

[Uncle Ted]

It wasn't really church but it was a Christmas party with several ward members so it felt like church. I was talking to our old bishop who was also a bishop up on campus during the 80's. He told me how the VCR was a major cause of moral problems up on campus. He said kids use to go to basketball games, to dances or out to eat and then the VCR came along and all hell broke loose. The kids would stay home watching one, two or even three movies a night under a blanket and that was a recipe for trouble. Damn those VCR's.

I have one in garage he can have to burn.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

I learned that in hip places like Bend they have stopped calling wards boring numbers and have given all the ward cool names like Cascade Crest, My. Bachelor or Mountain View.

[Northwestcoug]

That's right, HFNW. Don't forget that we're way hipper than Eugene.

[scottie]

It wasn't really church but it was a Christmas party with several ward members so it felt like church. I was talking to our old bishop who was also a bishop up on campus during the 80's. He told me how the VCR was a major cause of moral problems up on campus. He said kids use to go to basketball games, to dances or out to eat and then the VCR came along and all hell broke loose. The kids would stay home watching one, two or even three movies a night under a blanket and that was a recipe for trouble. Damn those VCR's.

Did you ever notice the video selection at Horkley's Video? We rented a lot of videos from there.

[Pheidippides]

I learned that "wicked traditions of their fathers" means "Catholicism".

[PaloAltoCougar]

I was not looking forward to presenting this week’s Gospel Doctrine lesson (Ether 1-6). Even as a teenager, I thought the Jaredite story was filled with absurdities. Among them, the notion that many people, livestock, a year’s supply of food and water, a swarm of freakin’ bees, among other things, travel in a sealed up boat with only a hole at the top (or bottom as the case may be) for nearly a year struck me as impossible. Add to that the ferocious winds and monstrous waves that turn everything upside (or submerge the whole boat), and you’ve got a rather intolerable sanitation problem I reckon. And why a year? Forget the ferocious winds—a gentle breeze of, say, 10 mph would be enough to push a boat back and forth across any ocean multiple times in the course of 344 days. I could go on, but you get the idea.

So I shared my concerns with the class, and apparently disturbed a few, including one who insisted that everything in the BoM is literally true, and another who asked, “There’s so much good in the book; why are you focusing on this?” I came around to the idea that whether the story is literally true or not doesn’t matter much to me. On a literal level, it holds little value for me as I doubt I’ll ever have to duplicate any of the leviathan tasks the Jaredites apparently undertook. But as an allegory, the story is a pretty powerful representation of what I’ve been asked to do: provide for my family temporally and spiritually, endure an awfully long life’s journey in the hope of someday reaching the promised land, see my life occasionally get tossed upside down and buffeted by ferocious winds, and in the midst of the storms, like the Jaredites I should be singing praises and giving thanks for the tender mercies, rather than bemoan my outcast state. Life can be a mess sometimes, but the examples and experiences of others, even in mythic form, can provide strength and guidance to muddle through.

At least we had a rousing discussion, and several were kind enough to express support afterward. But that might be because I hand out lots of chocolate each week to those who do their reading.

[shoganai]

I was not looking forward to presenting this week’s Gospel Doctrine lesson (Ether 1-6). Even as a teenager, I thought the Jaredite story was filled with absurdities. Among them, the notion that many people, livestock, a year’s supply of food and water, a swarm of freakin’ bees, among other things, travel in a sealed up boat with only a hole at the top (or bottom as the case may be) for nearly a year struck me as impossible. Add to that the ferocious winds and monstrous waves that turn everything upside (or submerge the whole boat), and you’ve got a rather intolerable sanitation problem I reckon. And why a year? Forget the ferocious winds—a gentle breeze of, say, 10 mph would be enough to push a boat back and forth across any ocean multiple times in the course of 344 days. I could go on, but you get the idea.

So I shared my concerns with the class, and apparently disturbed a few, including one who insisted that everything in the BoM is literally true, and another who asked, “There’s so much good in the book; why are you focusing on this?” I came around to the idea that whether the story is literally true or not doesn’t matter much to me. On a literal level, it holds little value for me as I doubt I’ll ever have to duplicate any of the leviathan tasks the Jaredites apparently undertook. But as an allegory, the story is a pretty powerful representation of what I’ve been asked to do: provide for my family temporally and spiritually, endure an awfully long life’s journey in the hope of someday reaching the promised land, see my life occasionally get tossed upside down and buffeted by ferocious winds, and in the midst of the storms, like the Jaredites I should be singing praises and giving thanks for the tender mercies, rather than bemoan my outcast state. Life can be a mess sometimes, but the examples and experiences of others, even in mythic form, can provide strength and guidance to muddle through.

At least we had a rousing discussion, and several were kind enough to express support afterward. But that might be because I hand out lots of chocolate each week to those who do their reading.

This is a case where Mormon social culture has developed a certain interpretation of a scripture story that takes an awful lot of artistic license. The descriptions of the Jaredite vessels and their subsequent journey are limited and vague, yet your average Sunday School attendee has all kinds of detailed assumptions that they think are more or less doctrinal.

For example, at first glance, we usually assume the Jaredites (or Lehites for that matter) never stopped on dry land during the trip to rest or replenish supplies. But, the accounts don't actually say that, and experts in ancient maritime travel will tell you they definitely must've stopped along the way where possible.

The typical, contemporary vision of the barges is another good example. The experts have a much more practical idea of their design than the pretty silly image most of us have of some UFO that flips upside down all the time (the BOM says nothing about the barges ever flipping over, BTW). I saw something an LDS expert in ocean travel came up with once, and it made complete practical sense, while matching the BOM description to a T. It was also completely different from the idea my primary teachers shared...

[Northwestcoug]

This is a case where Mormon social culture has developed a certain interpretation of a scripture story that takes an awful lot of artistic license. The descriptions of the Jaredite vessels and their subsequent journey are limited and vague, yet your average Sunday School attendee has all kinds of detailed assumptions that they think are more or less doctrinal.

For example, at first glance, we usually assume the Jaredites (or Lehites for that matter) never stopped on dry land during the trip to rest or replenish supplies. But, the accounts don't actually say that, and experts in ancient maritime travel will tell you they definitely must've stopped along the way where possible.

The typical, contemporary vision of the barges is another good example. The experts have a much more practical idea of their design than the pretty silly image most of us have of some UFO that flips upside down all the time (the BOM says nothing about the barges ever flipping over, BTW). I saw something an LDS expert in ocean travel came up with once, and it made complete practical sense, while matching the BOM description to a T. It was also completely different from the idea my primary teachers shared...

As someone who has played the odds and concluded that the BofM is not historical, I appreciate that people like PAC can find useful allegories from the scriptures. However, I think you're playing loose with Ether:

And they were built after a manner that they were exceedingly tight, even that they would hold water like unto a dish; and the bottom thereof was tight like unto a dish; and the sides thereof were tight like unto a dish; and the ends thereof were peaked; and the top thereof was tight like unto a dish; and the length thereof was the length of a tree; and the door thereof, when it was shut, was tight like unto a dish.

Sounds like a UFO-shaped boat to me.

I think your comments about stopping along the way certainly are plausible, but it's not in the record. At any rate, these issues really are small potatoes. The logistics of the trip, as written in the supposedly historical record, are simply too incredible to be plausible. I understand that people can invoke God to make it all work, because of nothing short of continuous miraculous intervention would make that type of trip happen.

[SoCalCoug]

As someone who has played the odds and concluded that the BofM is not historical, I appreciate that people like PAC can find useful allegories from the scriptures. However, I think you're playing loose with Ether:



Sounds like a UFO-shaped boat to me.

I don't know - to me, it seems to describe a large, tightly-covered canoe - peaked ends, long as a tree.

[Indy Coug]

As someone who has played the odds and concluded that the BofM is not historical, I appreciate that people like PAC can find useful allegories from the scriptures. However, I think you're playing loose with Ether:



Sounds like a UFO-shaped boat to me.

I think your comments about stopping along the way certainly are plausible, but it's not in the record. At any rate, these issues really are small potatoes. The logistics of the trip, as written in the supposedly historical record, are simply too incredible to be plausible. I understand that people can invoke God to make it all work, because of nothing short of continuous miraculous intervention would make that type of trip happen.

If there is a God who can create an entire universe....

[Northwestcoug]

I don't know - to me, it seems to describe a large, tightly-covered canoe - peaked ends, long as a tree.

I guess I keep getting stuck on the word 'dish'. But even if it was more like a canoe, that makes the trip even more problematic. It would certainly be less stable and prone to flipping.