Poinsettia Bowl

[fusnik]

I've never been the biggest Taysom fan. I still think he's miles better than the 2003 carrousel of QBs that played.

Covey and Riley are fair comparisons though.

Was that the year he broke his thumb and couldn't grip the ball?

Yeah maybe that year was worse.

[PaloAltoCougar]

...

Love Taysom. No BYU player, except for maybe Luke Staley, left more of himself on the field. The warrior football player is one of the things that attracts me to the game. Taysom is a warrior.

This would lead to an interesting, if depressing, discussion of nominees for this dubious achievement award. Among my nominees would be [age alert] Craig Garrick (guy played with a cartilage-free knee that left him with a shortened life and a lot of pain) and even Robbie Bosco, who played through some bad shoulder injuries and whose performance in '85 was, I think, underappreciated. No doubt there are many others whose physical sacrifices for the love of the game and BYU are pretty amazing. They have my deepest gratitude, respect and pity.

[Shaka]

This would lead to an interesting, if depressing, discussion of nominees for this dubious achievement award. Among my nominees would be [age alert] Craig Garrick (guy played with a cartilage-free knee that left him with a shortened life and a lot of pain) and even Robbie Bosco, who played through some bad shoulder injuries and whose performance in '85 was, I think, underappreciated. No doubt there are many others whose physical sacrifices for the love of the game and BYU are pretty amazing. They have my deepest gratitude, respect and pity.

This is Mitch Harper's rather moronic list:

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He has Bosco at ten. Talk about underappreciated. Bosco, even with a wrecked shoulder, is a top four guy. I personally wouldn't put Taysom in the top ten.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

I don't think it's absurd.

The difference between 11-1 and 8-4 was arguably 2-4 plays a game and I think that Tanner is 2-4 plays better per game than Taysom.

The perception of the daunting schedule tempered a lot of the criticism that Taysom should've faced. He should've been benched multiple times during the year including the first game at halftime.

UA - awful
UCLA - awful
MichSU - awful
MissSU - awful
BSU - should've won
WVU - had a decent chance
Utah - Taysom threw a pick six and Utah had a bajillion TOS and it still came down to the last play

The only quality win was Toledo.

I agree with all of this.

I would also add that Mangum can run for a few yards when he has to, like an Aaron Rodgers type QB. He's not a statue like Dan Marino or Tom Brady. The losses were all so close, it's easy to see the team picking up a couple extra wins with marginally better QB play.

[pelagius]

I'm excited to move into the Tanner Mangum era. I don't fault the coaches at all for going with Taysom. I would have liked to see something different, but I can't fault the coaches for not doing it, because this sort of thing doesn't usually ever happen. But I still think it should have. I would have gone into the season thinking, we're going with Taysom. But let's be realistic, we're independent, the last part of our schedule sucks. If Taysom is not a Heisman candidate or NFL candidate, and we're not having an extremely successful season, ie top 15-20, and not in hunt for bigger bowl than Poinsettia, then let's find a breaking point where we make a switch to go with Mangum to prepare him for the future. Whether that's after Mich State or after Boise or Cincy, I think that could/should have been done. It likely wouldn't hurt the overall W-L record, it energizes the fan base, and it helps us dramatically in the future. Lot of upside with minimal downside in that decision.

This strikes me as right, Jay; Tanner was like a call option at the point, and should have been valued as such. That's a hard thing to get the valuation right for even given strong incentives to win.

[Jeff Lebowski]

This reimagining the past is funny. And completely meaningless.

Tason was a warrior. I wish him the best. And I am a huge Tanner Mangum fan. Can't wait to see how he does. Yes, it is possible to be a fan of both QBs.


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[Shaka]

This reimagining the past is funny. And completely meaningless.

Tason was a warrior. I wish him the best. And I am a huge Tanner Mangum fan. Can't wait to see how he does. Yes, it is possible to be a fan of both QBs.


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Agree on the warrior part. Analyzing the past is something you have to do in football.

[jay santos]

This is Mitch Harper's rather moronic list:

Embedded Tweet

He has Bosco at ten. Talk about underappreciated. Bosco, even with a wrecked shoulder, is a top four guy. I personally wouldn't put Taysom in the top ten.

Taysom's first season in 2013, I would put at about average BYU QB level. Low pass rating of 118, but average of 100+ yards per game rushing was incredible. Above all the bad ones, but below all the great ones, like outside the top 12. 2014 and 2015 combined he played at an elite level. 140+ pass rating and 90+ yards rushing. I would put him right up there with anyone outside the top three McMahon-Detmer-Young. The problem was that was about five games combined. Then 2016 he reverts back to the poor pass rating but also his rushing drops in half down to 50 yds a game. So 2016, he's even lower than that level that was already outside the top 12. It's tough to put him very high when 3/4 of the games he played were at that lower level. Also tough when his senior season was his worst. Understandable due to injuries, but you just can't rank him that high. I don't think he sniffs the top 15. Sorry Taysom. What might have been...

[Shaka]

Taysom's first season in 2013, I would put at about average BYU QB level. Low pass rating of 118, but average of 100+ yards per game rushing was incredible. Above all the bad ones, but below all the great ones, like outside the top 12. 2014 and 2015 combined he played at an elite level. 140+ pass rating and 90+ yards rushing. I would put him right up there with anyone outside the top three McMahon-Detmer-Young. The problem was that was about five games combined. Then 2016 he reverts back to the poor pass rating but also his rushing drops in half down to 50 yds a game. So 2016, he's even lower than that level that was already outside the top 12. It's tough to put him very high when 3/4 of the games he played were at that lower level. Also tough when his senior season was his worst. Understandable due to injuries, but you just can't rank him that high. I don't think he sniffs the top 15. Sorry Taysom. What might have been...

Yeah ranking Taysom is tough but he's not top ten material. As far as it pertains to QB's you simply can't weight rushing and passing the same.

[Flystripper]

This strikes me as right, Jay; Tanner was like a call option at the point, and should have been valued as such. That's a hard thing to get the valuation right for even given strong incentives to win.

yeah what is your comp set for QB volatility?

[pelagius]

yeah what is your comp set for QB volatility?

Way bigger than Taysom at that point in the season. (and don't mean volatility in the class sense but rather variance around your estimate of good he is or will be)

[Joe Public]

What plays is he better than taysom at besides pass plays? You think his handoffs are a lot better? Or maybe he just has very nice incompletions that lull the defense alseep for the next play? Seriously, if you dont mean Mangum does better in passing, tell me what it is he is doing better for 2-4 plays a game becasue I am missing that skill in comparing the two QBs to each other.

Let me help you. He's saying a net 2-4 plays better per game. This could be 7-8 passing plays better reduced by a few Taysom running plays.

[Blueintheface]

Had Detmer entered the picture just as Taysom transferred to BYU, does Taysom improve as a passer? Does he end his career in better health as his playing time decreases/doesn't progress/Detmer continues in his current West Coast offense? When it comes to prunes , is 4 too many or is 1 not enough?

All stupid questions.

[Bo Diddley]

Agree on the warrior part. Analyzing the past is something you have to do in football.

But surely very premature at this point with respect to how Tanner would have done with this offense.

[Shaka]

But surely very premature at this point with respect to how Tanner would have done with this offense.

How do you figure? We had nearly an entire season to watch and evaluate Tanner. This particular offense caters to his strengths.