Poinsettia Bowl

[Blueintheface]

It's funny you used this as an example because it perfectly illustrates how irrational fan perceptions can be. Under Taysom Hill, BYU was #13 in the nation on third-down conversions this year.

https://www.teamrankings.com/college...conversion-pct

To be fair, he did say "It was awesome at times". And no, I am not his advocate.

[San Juan Sun]

I have moved past Taysom hand-wringing. I respect him as a really great leader and competitor. I appreciate his toughness and willingness to put his body on the line year after year. I sort of look at him now like I do Riley Nelson: “Come on, dear brother, since the war is past, For friends at first, are friends again at last.”

We've had a pretty good season and I like Kalani a lot. I think the future is bright.

But I would be lying if I said I wasn't excited to see what Tanner can do.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I think it is absurd to assume BYU would be have won 2 more games with Tanner at QB. I get the excitement of seeing what Tanner can do with adequate prep and a gameplan built around him but lets stay smart about this situation.

To answer your question the teams where the coaches believe the 6th year senior gives them the best chance to win. I find it absurd to think the coaches willingly put themselves into a position to lose games. It reminds me of people all worked up when Povey replaced Dallin Leavitt. There was no argument that Leavitt was the more gifted athlete and should have been the better player but it was also self-evident to anyone who watched the games that Leavitt was frequently out of position and despite being the more gifted athlete he was an inferior player if the overall goal was to win the football game. Dallin Leavitt is clearly a kid that is only about Dallin Leavitt and my guess is that is the source of his problems at BYU - not some stupid argument of nepotism while comparing 40 times, bench presses and cone drills...or even the highlight plays that Dallin made that Povey never could.

Be excited about Tanner but stay grounded in your expectations because my guess is he is not clearly as much better than Taysom as you are assuming.

Well said.

Nobody in all of cougar nation has more motivation to win than the coaching staff. Their livelihood is literally on the line. They also have more data to work with when making the decision. That is not to say they are always right, but they certainly deserve the benefit of the doubt from fans.

[myboynoah]

It's funny you used this as an example because it perfectly illustrates how irrational fan perceptions can be. Under Taysom Hill, BYU was #13 in the nation on third-down conversions this year.

https://www.teamrankings.com/college...conversion-pct

My perception may be in error, but your link does not address the situation I described.

[Jeff Lebowski]

My perception may be in error, but your link does not address the situation I described.

Really? How so? How could he be so horrible at 3rd and 5+ and yet be so effective overall on 3rd down? Either he was not that bad on 3rd and 5+ (most likely) or he was off-the-charts exceptional on 3rd and short. Either way, BYU was fantastic this year on 3rd down efficiency.

[myboynoah]

Really? How so? How could he be so horrible at 3rd and 5+ and yet be so effective overall on 3rd down? Either he was not that bad on 3rd and 5+ (most likely) or he was off-the-charts exceptional on 3rd and short. Either way, BYU was fantastic this year on 3rd down efficiency.

Yes really, you're still not addressing the situation I described. Just saying what my impression was. Not much of a reliable vertical game, so I wasn't that confident.

[jay santos]

I'm excited to move into the Tanner Mangum era. I don't fault the coaches at all for going with Taysom. I would have liked to see something different, but I can't fault the coaches for not doing it, because this sort of thing doesn't usually ever happen. But I still think it should have. I would have gone into the season thinking, we're going with Taysom. But let's be realistic, we're independent, the last part of our schedule sucks. If Taysom is not a Heisman candidate or NFL candidate, and we're not having an extremely successful season, ie top 15-20, and not in hunt for bigger bowl than Poinsettia, then let's find a breaking point where we make a switch to go with Mangum to prepare him for the future. Whether that's after Mich State or after Boise or Cincy, I think that could/should have been done. It likely wouldn't hurt the overall W-L record, it energizes the fan base, and it helps us dramatically in the future. Lot of upside with minimal downside in that decision.

[hostile]

Yes really, you're still not addressing the situation I described. Just saying what my impression was. Not much of a reliable vertical game, so I wasn't that confident.

I was speaking with a former player/current coach at BYU about this last year (before he was hired). I commented that my perception of BYU through the 80s-90s was that 3rd and long (>5) didn't seem to matter; the O line would give who ever was the QB ample time to find an open receiver. My perception now is that they are successful on 3rd down but it is often Hill's running that moves the chains.

[Paperback Writer]

I was speaking with a former player/current coach at BYU about this last year (before he was hired). I commented that my perception of BYU through the 80s-90s was that 3rd and long (>5) didn't seem to matter; the O line would give who ever was the QB ample time to find an open receiver. My perception now is that they are successful on 3rd down but it is often Hill's running that moves the chains.

I agree with that analysis. A running QB with 3rd and 5 is often more difficult to defend; 3rd and 12 is a different story. I'll also add it's not just finding an open receiver to throw to (provided the QB has protection); a receiver also has to catch the pass. Perhaps it is my perception, but BYU receivers seemed to have had a lot of drops this year.

[myboynoah]

I was speaking with a former player/current coach at BYU about this last year (before he was hired). I commented that my perception of BYU through the 80s-90s was that 3rd and long (>5) didn't seem to matter; the O line would give who ever was the QB ample time to find an open receiver. My perception now is that they are successful on 3rd down but it is often Hill's running that moves the chains.

Yes, no doubts about Taysom's running abilities. But sadly that exposed him to a pounding. And successful conversion of third downs by rushing the ball decreases with the number of yards needed to convert (yes, I'm stating the obvious). This year's Taysom wasn't the Taysom prior to his injuries. We see the same thing with RJ3. Once injury takes it toll, they can't do the same things they did before. Gotta make that up somewhere; obviously in the passing game.

I agree with that analysis. A running QB with 3rd and 5 is often more difficult to defend; 3rd and 12 is a different story. I'll also add it's not just finding an open receiver to throw to (provided the QB has protection); a receiver also has to catch the pass. Perhaps it is my perception, but BYU receivers seemed to have had a lot of drops this year.

I wonder about the receivers and the o-line. Maybe Detmer recognized Taysom's limitations in the vertical game and a questionable o-line and built a game plan to minimize those weaknesses and maximize the strengths (ball control, heavy on the short passing game and running the football, reliance on the defense to keep it close).

[BlueK]

I wonder about the receivers and the o-line. Maybe Detmer recognized Taysom's limitations in the vertical game and a questionable o-line and built a game plan to minimize those weaknesses and maximize the strengths (ball control, heavy on the short passing game and running the football, reliance on the defense to keep it close).

I agree this is what happened. And for the bowl game I'm pretty sure we'll see the offense adjust to emphasize what Tanner can do better.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Yes, no doubts about Taysom's running abilities. But sadly that exposed him to a pounding. And successful conversion of third downs by rushing the ball decreases with the number of yards needed to convert (yes, I'm stating the obvious). This year's Taysom wasn't the Taysom prior to his injuries. We see the same thing with RJ3. Once injury takes it toll, they can't do the same things they did before. Gotta make that up somewhere; obviously in the passing game.

Has he been playing injured this year? I haven't noticed.

Other than that dumb dive against USU, it seems like Taysom has been more selective and more careful about running this year.

[Blueintheface]

Has he been playing injured this year? I haven't noticed.

Other than that dumb dive against USU, it seems like Taysom has been more selective and more careful about running this year.

??? Rewatch the Texas games or of his other pre-injury games and tell me he wasn't playing injured this year. It may be that he is now (prior to the USU game) as healthy as his 26 year old 3 season-ending injuries body will allow but I would still consider that playing injured as he is measurably slower than in 2013.

[Jeff Lebowski]

??? Rewatch the Texas games or of his other pre-injury games and tell me he wasn't playing injured this year. It may be that he is now (prior to the USU game) as healthy as his 26 year old 3 season-ending injuries body will allow but I would still consider that playing injured as he is measurably slower than in 2013.

Yeah, I misread this post. He was referring to pre-2016 injuries.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

Has he been playing injured this year? I haven't noticed.

Other than that dumb dive against USU, it seems like Taysom has been more selective and more careful about running this year.

Look at Lebowski buttering up Taysom, maybe he's trying to sell CS for $100,000,000, aka pocket change to Taysom. Make sure you get a piggyback ride around campus out of the deal!