The Big 10 Expansion Groundswell

[Jeff Lebowski]

Because you don't understand the rankings. The outlet isn't being stupidly internally inconsistent.

The rankings you link are just for undergraduate teaching programs.

they're mostly driven by admissions numbers which doesn't do justice to public schools.

From the header at the top:

Schools in the National Universities category, such as the University of Chicago and Carnegie Mellon University, offer a full range of undergraduate majors, plus master's and doctoral programs. These colleges also are committed to producing groundbreaking research.

The point is, you are cherry-picking to support your narrative.

[tooblue]

It is clear the play here for the BIG is Notre Dame. USC with tag along UCLA is the lure.

Access to the LA media market is a big plus, but not as much as some imagine—there is a lot of competition in that market (Rams, Chargers, Lakers, Dodgers, Hollywood).

Securing Notre Dame which is already in their footprint using USC and tag along UCLA as the lure is a bold gambit that had to be done sooner than later.

The threat is Notre Dame bolting to the SEC and taking Clemson, Florida State and Boston College / North Carolina with them.

It is clear if they secure Notre Dame, the next move is to take Washington and Oregon.

An intriguing alternative and direct geographical link to the LA teams (especially for olympic sports) could be Colorado and Utah (despite the split SLC market).

In other words, the current schadenfreude expressed on cougarboard is fraught with peril … don’t sleep on Utah to the BIG. It’s a real possibility.

The best move by the BIG12 is to do everything they can to make in-roads in the Houston market.

The next best move could be to add Colorado, SDSU* and the Arizona teams, while patiently waiting on Washington and Oregon. They could also consider adding Utah along with Colorado despite the split market with BYU, but SDSU* is the better option.

DMA (Designated Market Areas) rankings:

8. Houston
10. Boston
11. Phoenix
12. Seattle-Tacoma
16. Denver
21. Portland
24. Raleigh-Durham
27. San Diego*
30. Salt Lake City

[SeattleUte]

From the header at the top:



The point is, you are cherry-picking to support your narrative.

That's how they qualify as national universities that offer undergraduate programs. As opposed to, for example, Williams, which only offers undergraduate programs. And is still a fantastic school and almost impossible to get into (it's probably no. 1 liberal arts college).

But the world rankings rank schools based on everything. Some schools like BYU and Notre Dame sink because they emphasize college and a few distinguished professional schools.

it doesn't mean you should look at the world rankings in picking a law school or an undergraduate school.

But here we're discussing universities more holistically, right?

[SeattleUte]

I bet Williams is Unranked in the world rankings.

[Jeff Lebowski]

It is clear the play here for the BIG is Notre Dame. USC with tag along UCLA is the lure.

Access to the LA media market is a big plus, but not as much as some imagine—there is a lot of competition in that market (Rams, Chargers, Lakers, Dodgers, Hollywood).

Securing Notre Dame which is already in their footprint using USC and tag along UCLA as the lure is a bold gambit that had to be done sooner than later.

The threat is Notre Dame bolting to the SEC and taking Clemson, Florida State and Boston College / North Carolina with them.

It is clear if they secure Notre Dame, the next move is to take Washington and Oregon.

An intriguing alternative and direct geographical link to the LA teams (especially for olympic sports) could be Colorado and Utah (despite the split SLC market).

In other words, the current schadenfreude expressed on cougarboard is fraught with peril … don’t sleep on Utah to the BIG. It’s a real possibility.

The best move by the BIG12 is to do everything they can to make in-roads in the Houston market.

The next best move could be to add Colorado, SDSU* and the Arizona teams, while patiently waiting on Washington and Oregon. They could also consider adding Utah along with Colorado despite the split market with BYU, but SDSU* is the better option.

DMA (Designated Market Areas) rankings:

8. Houston
10. Boston
11. Phoenix
12. Seattle-Tacoma
16. Denver
21. Portland
24. Raleigh-Durham
27. San Diego*
30. Salt Lake City

SDSU has terrible fan support. Bad idea.

This guy makes a pretty good case that adding USC/UCLA made clear financial sense to the B1G but Oregon/UW would probably result in a net loss in revenue.

https://www.johncanzano.com/p/canzan...mes-with?sd=pf

[Jeff Lebowski]

That's how they qualify as national universities that offer undergraduate programs. As opposed to, for example, Williams, which only offers undergraduate programs. And is still a fantastic school and almost impossible to get into (it's probably no. 1 liberal arts college).

But the world rankings rank schools based on everything. Some schools like BYU and Notre Dame sink because they emphasize college and a few distinguished professional schools.

it doesn't mean you should look at the world rankings in picking a law school or an undergraduate school.

But here we're discussing universities more holistically, right?

That's all fine, but I don't think world rankings have any relevance when discussing college football programs.

[tooblue]

SDSU has terrible fan support. Bad idea.

This guy makes a pretty good case that adding USC/UCLA made clear financial sense to the B1G but Oregon/UW would probably result in a net loss in revenue.

https://www.johncanzano.com/p/canzan...mes-with?sd=pf

The article makes a good case, and that is why the BIG going after Colorado and Utah could make sense. Once upon a time Utah had terrible fan support. Big money can do wonders for a program.

[SeattleUte]

That's all fine, but I don't think world rankings have any relevance when discussing college football programs.

We'll have to agree to disagree. But that's fine.

[SeattleUte]

I talked to a friend of mine who studies this college football situation, for those of you who care. He said that asking is Utah going to [fill in the blank] conference? is the wrong question.

What's happening is that the Big 10 and SEC are creating an NFL-style world outside the NCAA. The real question is whether your team makes the 35 team cut in the end.

By then, who cares about the Pac 12 or the Big 12, if college football really matters to you.

Utah may make the cut. BYU might. Probably some schools like Nebraska or Mississippi State could get booted.

But like I said, this is a buzz kill. The end of regional rivalries, tradition, the college atmosphere, everything that gave college football a competitive advantage over the NFL.

I won't be interested in an NFL minor league. No thanks. Gross. I can't believe schools like UW, UCLA, U of Michigan, want this. It's like they've partitioned DI sports and said, get the hence. I don't think they should license their brands to these NFL minor leagues.

The USA's most admired brands are our universities. And not because of college football. On the contrary. The real money also lies outside DI sports, that's for sure.

[jay santos]

The article makes a good case, and that is why the BIG going after Colorado and Utah could make sense. Once upon a time Utah had terrible fan support. Big money can do wonders for a program.

I'm not getting why Col and Utah could make sense if Wash and Ore don't.

[tooblue]

I'm not getting why Col and Utah could make sense if Wash and Ore don't.

They are both AAU schools and create a geographic bridge between the west coast to the eastern situated teams. This could help with where to schedule large Olympic sports events.

[tooblue]

ACC gets torn apart by B10 and SEC. The leftovers join whatever they’re gonna call the Big 12/Pac12 leftovers.

I think it is inevitable. The gambit and why the BIG acted now adding USC+UCLA is to entice Notre Dame and stop them from going to the SEC with other select ACC teams.

[Art Vandelay]

They are both AAU schools and create a geographic bridge between the west coast to the eastern situated teams. This could help with where to schedule large Olympic sports events.

An hour shorter flight makes a difference?

I, like everyone else online, think UW is the number one choice for any conference, after the Fighting Holtzs. The Seattle market+ top tier academics+ a (not so recent) history of national sports prominence.

Oregon’s success is more recent and includes basketball. It has good academics, but is a step below UW. The major drawback is how small of market Eugene, and even Portland is.

I’m a little surprised Phoenix is not more coveted. I would guess it to be about double the size of Portland, with a much steeper growth curve. Granted neither UA or ASU bring much to the table with their current football status, but neither did UCLA

[Jeff Lebowski]

They are both AAU schools and create a geographic bridge between the west coast to the eastern situated teams. This could help with where to schedule large Olympic sports events.

This makes zero sense.

[tooblue]

An hour shorter flight makes a difference?

I, like everyone else online, think UW is the number one choice for any conference, after the Fighting Holtzs. The Seattle market+ top tier academics+ a (not so recent) history of national sports prominence.

Oregon’s success is more recent and includes basketball. It has good academics, but is a step below UW. The major drawback is how small of market Eugene, and even Portland is.

I’m a little surprised Phoenix is not more coveted. I would guess it to be about double the size of Portland, with a much steeper growth curve. Granted neither UA or ASU bring much to the table with their current football status, but neither did UCLA

Could be two or three hours difference for some schools getting to Denver / Boulder from the east.

I agree the Seattle market is undervalued, but again that is a long ways to go, especially for non football sports.

Detroit to Denver = 3h 5min
Detroit to LA = 4h 45min