2012 BYU Football Season

[pelagius]

"@gregwrubell: In 29 seasons, LaVell Edwards went 21-21-1 v. ranked teams; since Edwards' retirement in 2000, BYU is 4-18 v. ranked teams."

Seems like there are more illuminating ways to slice this data than what Wrubell does here (also my numbers don't entirely align with Wrubell's either (maybe my source is wrong but I think Wrubell is wrong) .. I have it as 21-32-1). Let's take a look at the following slices: (1) LaVell in the glory years (1979-1985), (2)_LaVell post glory years (86-00), LaVell in his last 8 years (to match the same time length as Bronco during right now), Crowton (01-04), and Bronco (05-12):

Years   Wins  Loses  Ties  Win%
79-85      7      4     0   64%
86-00     12     22     1   38%
93-00      7     12     0   37%
01-04      0      6     0    0%
05-12      4     12     0   25%

Look Bronco is clearly worse than LaVell against ranked teams. On the other hand, post the glory years the gap isn't huge (it isn't trivial either). Also, other factors may explain at least part of the gap. For example, Bronco has played 63% of these games on the road. LaVell in the post glory years era played 37% on the road (the big difference is not how many were at home ... the big difference is the number on neutral fields).

[ERCougar]

You must have forgotten the circumstances under which Bronco was hired (it was well documented) and how he spent hours in the interview process pitching himself by describing his vision for re-engineering BYU football as a missionary tool for the church. You must have forgotten that Lavell didn't operate this way. You must have forgotten that we currently have a highly successful basketball program that isn't operated this way. And how is it that horrible management of players, dubious assistant coach decisions, and terrible judgement in terms of game time decisions and clock management has anything to do with being forced from above to run a righteous program? Stop kidding yourself. This is all on Bronco.

This is the first I've heard this. I mean, it's no secret that he does this, that it's a part of how he operates, but that he pitched the idea to the higher ups (I still don't know who he ultimately answers to)?

Also, is he really a bad recruiter? Players seem to love him and we've had some of our best recruiting years ever under him (not that they've amounted to much--I have no argument with your other issues with him).

[Blueintheface]

Jeff, your thoughts in this thread are spot on re: Bronco vs Rose.

An easy example is when each coach is asked about a particular player. Rose immediately responds to the player's ability, style of play, what he brings to the team, etc. Bronco chooses instead to talk about trust and loyalty. Effective critique in a business setting but just plain weird from a head football coach. Those attributes are important in the overall scheme but I think his response is indicative of someone whose 5th priority is football. He is nothing if not consistent.

[Green Monstah]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8511711/mike-holmgren-cleveland-browns-sale-official-sources-say

Hey, coach, any chance you'd be willing to come back to Provo as the assistant offensive coordinator????

[byu71]

Also, is he really a bad recruiter? Players seem to love him and we've had some of our best recruiting years ever under him (not that they've amounted to much--I have no argument with your other issues with him).

This is a question I sway back and forth on. I think his criteria for who he recruits hurts him, but leaving that out I am still confused when it comes to that question.

I haven't talked to an actual player since the Curtis Brown years. My brother used to have a lot of them over for dinner and I would of course show up. They seemed quite enthusiastic in support of Bronco. They thought he was tough and disciplined, but genuinely liked him.

I have read in articles where recruits will talk about how great it is to be recruited by Bronco and how he emphasizes important things outside of football.

Then again just last week I was talking to someone who knows several kids who are being recruited by Bronco. He tells me these kids think being recruited by Bronco is a "weird" experience and they are turned off by it.

Who knows?

[All-American]

This is a question I sway back and forth on. I think his criteria for who he recruits hurts him, but leaving that out I am still confused when it comes to that question.

I haven't talked to an actual player since the Curtis Brown years. My brother used to have a lot of them over for dinner and I would of course show up. They seemed quite enthusiastic in support of Bronco. They thought he was tough and disciplined, but genuinely liked him.

I have read in articles where recruits will talk about how great it is to be recruited by Bronco and how he emphasizes important things outside of football.

Then again just last week I was talking to someone who knows several kids who are being recruited by Bronco. He tells me these kids think being recruited by Bronco is a "weird" experience and they are turned off by it.

Who knows?

I'm sure it's a lot of both, and that players are sorted accordingly. We lose guys who think Bronco is weird, and we win guys who know that there is more to life than football. It is what it is, even if it isn't always going to win over a lot of very good football players.

[byu71]

I'm sure it's a lot of both, and that players are sorted accordingly. We lose guys who think Bronco is weird, and we win guys who know that there is more to life than football. It is what it is, even if it isn't always going to win over a lot of very good football players.

Agree. My thought though at times has been that BYU sells itself on the things that are more important than football. The job of the HC of football at BYU should be selling the kids on the importance of football at BYU and be able to adapt to the various personality of the kids being recruited.

That being said, I am not the administrators at BYU nor the Head football coach they may have a different agenda.

[jay santos]

Driving my kids to school today, I heard someone (PK?) talking about how Bronco is really unpopular with the fan base relative to what you would think he would be given his total record. I remember thinking a few years ago when Bronco was new and winning and was super popular that eventually this hatred he has for the average fan and constantly calling them out would end up biting him in the ass.

[TripletDaddy]

Driving my kids to school today, I heard someone (PK?) talking about how Bronco is really unpopular with the fan base relative to what you would think he would be given his total record. I remember thinking a few years ago when Bronco was new and winning and was super popular that eventually this hatred he has for the average fan and constantly calling them out would end up biting him in the ass.

I listened to them this morning as well. I don't think I was in during the portion you are describing, but PK did make the point that BYU fans are not "fooled" by Bronco's record. Get fat off patsies, lose more often than not to good teams, sub .500 record against Utah. Not a good recipe.

[pelagius]

Driving my kids to school today, I heard someone (PK?) talking about how Bronco is really unpopular with the fan base relative to what you would think he would be given his total record.

This seems right to me. I think you can see this in the coverage Bronco is getting from Harmon and Wrubell. Guys like Harmon and Wrubell to a large degree just reflect the optimistic end of fan sentiment (although they smooth the sentiment and only want reflect it if they don't think it is a short run deviation and, of course, the tone of their criticism will never be nasty). That both of them are willing to write articles (and tweet (even if inaccurate) less than flattering factoids) supports this notion that even the relative optimistic are getting restless.

I remember thinking a few years ago when Bronco was new and winning and was super popular that eventually this hatred he has for the average fan and constantly calling them out would end up biting him in the ass.

Pretty sure you did more than think it. I am pretty sure you vocalized it more than once.

[byu71]

I remember thinking a few years ago when Bronco was new and winning and was super popular that eventually this hatred he has for the average fan and constantly calling them out would end up biting him in the ass.

Also his sermons and over mixing of religion and football (my opinion) served to turn off part of the fan base. I even know some very active members who were turned off by it.

This all may represent only 20-30% of the fan base, but you need the so called "don't let the door hit you in the butt" fans.

At times I want to do an "I told you so" post over on CB. Since I don't hold grudges against people who rip on me for my opinons, I won't.

[The_Douger]

Nah, you should.

They would whine about it for days.

[Surfah]

My enthusiasm for BYU football is at an all-time low. I just want Riley Nelson to graduate.

[The_Douger]

My enthusiasm for BYU football is at an all-time low. I just want Riley Nelson to graduate.

I will be so glad when he's not a part of our team.

And I don't mean it in a demeaning or bad way, I just want him to leave and for him to have nothing to do with the program going forward.

His presence on our team has set us back several years, it seems like.

[byu71]

My enthusiasm for BYU football is at an all-time low. I just want Riley Nelson to graduate.

I fully intended on renewing my tickets next year because of the terrific home schedule.

I have enjoyed so much this year not having the whole day taken up by getting to LES, watching the game and getting back. I have actually done other things during gameday.

With LES being such a bore when it comes to college FB atmoshpere and my waning enthusiasm, I will probably only renew if the kids really want to see some of these teams that are coming to LES.