The Utah 2011 Football Thread

[LiveCoug]

HTF do you figure that?

Like I said, as a Utah fan I'd still like to maintain a number of historical series that Utah has played, continue playing USU on occasion AND GO OUT AND SCHEDULE SOME BIG NAME TEAMS, i.e. "potential losses."

Give me a break. It has nothing to do with your second "reason." It has everything to do with Utah having played, historically, a great number of teams in the region. In fact, it's the complete OPPOSITE of your first point. It's respecting where Utah came from and the history it has with those programs, BYU and USU included.

Utah cannot be all things to all people. It needs to shape it's own future. BYU should be part of that future, but it shouldn't be so important that Utah loses opportunities to play big name OOC games and continue with other regional and in-state series.

I just don't understand at all why Ute or Cougar fans would want to put an end to the rivalry. USU? Really? Anyway, it still comes off as my number 2. It's ok if you don't think so. You can still play a big game a crap game (USU if that floats your boat) and a true rivalry game in BYU. In no way is playing BYU a guaranteed loss for Utah and I never insinuated that it is an automatic loss.

My first reason is more of a minority of Ute fans, I would hope, but point 2 still seems to be a reason in many utes minds (whether they admit it or not).

No need to get all angry.

[Flattop]

I just don't understand at all why Ute or Cougar fans would want to put an end to the rivalry. USU? Really?

Utah-BYU would be a great rivalry if not for religion and if it wasn't dysfunctional.

[LA Ute]

Yes, only the haters, but hey, there seem to be a lot of those.

I haven't seen this but I understand that at CB, a number of posters are saying BYU shouldn't scheduLe Utah in football, and that BYU is now bigger than Utah because of its national independent ESPN-aided footprint. So there is silliness and exaggeration on both sides.

The situation could change. If BYU doesn't do well as an independent and becomes the equivalent of Army or Navy, and its ESPN presence wanes, and Utah does well, maybe Utah doesn't want to pay Goliath to BYU's David. If the prayers of some BYU fans are answered and Utah becomes the new Washington State, and BYU becomes the NCAA football version of the stone cut from the mountain without hands and takes over the football world, maybe they don't want to play Goliath to Utah's David. But there's a lot of road between where we are now and anything like the above two scenarios coming to pass.

[LiveCoug]

I haven't seen this but I understand that at CB, a number of posters are saying BYU shouldn't scheduLe Utah in football, and that BYU is now bigger than Utah because of its national independent ESPN-aided footprint. So there is silliness and exaggeration on both sides.

The situation could change. If BYU doesn't do well as an independent and becomes the equivalent of Army or Navy, and its ESPN presence wanes, and Utah does well, maybe Utah doesn't want to pay Goliath to BYU's David. If the prayers of some BYU fans are answered and Utah becomes the new Washington State, and BYU becomes the NCAA football version of the stone cut from the mountain without hands and takes over the football world, maybe they don't want to play Goliath to Utah's David. But there's a lot of road between where we are now and anything like the above two scenarios coming to pass.

Agreed. Cougar fans who want the rivalry to end are just as silly as Ute fans.

[USUC]

Utah-BYU would be a great rivalry if not for religion and if it wasn't dysfunctional.

I don't understand this talk about the BYU-Utah rivalry being so "dysfunctional", or "over the top" and that it should be scaled back and toned down. As a great man once said, pull the string! This rivalry is tame compared to half of the rivalry games in the South and Big 10 country. Sure there is the religion vs secular aspect that can get panties in a twist, but its still pretty mild. Its a lame excuse to call off the series. I view this type of talk as a passive aggressive way for Ute fans to stick it to the BYU fanbase. Has there been serious overtures by the Utah administrators to end the rivalry?

[LA Ute]

I don't understand this talk about the BYU-Utah rivalry being so "dysfunctional", or "over the top" and that it should be scaled back and toned down. As a great man once said, pull the string! This rivalry is tame compared to half of the rivalry games in the South and Big 10 country.

I hear this all the time-that SEC rivalries are much more intense than Utah-BYU. Is this what people think who have lived in both places for an extended period? I am skeptical.

Sure there is religion vs secular aspect that can get panties in a twist, but its still pretty mild. Its a lame excuse to call off the series.

I don't agree. After many years in L.A., watching the USC-UCLA rivalry, I don't see anything like what goes on between Utah and BYU. Stanford-Cal is another very intense rivalry around games, but the alums on both sides are otherwise very good-natured about it. There's a lot of toxicity in Utah-BYU. It's no reason to end the rivalry series, but it does make people (including me) think from time to time that we wouldn't miss having to deal with it very year.

[LA Ute]

Interesting comments from Bill Plaschke (L.A. Times) about Norm Norm Chow's departure from UCLA:

The biggest lack of connection occurred with Chow, who is one of the finest football men and human beings I have known, but who also probably never should have been hired in the first place. Chow was used to running a national-championship offense. Neuheisel was used to working up an NFL offense. The Bruins had two offensive coordinators, which meant, in the end, that they had no offensive coordination.

"I was more enamored with Norm's profile than anything else," Neuheisel says of a hire that was wildly and naively applauded by many, including me. "I was trying to hit a home run."

It was, of course, not a home run. It was a painfully prolonged strikeout.

"It just didn't work, and it's not Norm's fault. It was that chemistry thing. We didn't have the usual give-and-take that staffs need to be successful," Neuheisel says. "You have to have a staff that develops a recipe for success and stays united behind it. … I don't think that always got accomplished and, because of that, there's a trickle-down effect on your players."

[Ma'ake]

I'm far from being convinced BYU is set to become a perennial top 10 team. I'm not afraid of playing BYU. They're far more ferocious off season.

But let's explore what benefit the game provides for Utah. Does getting jacked up to play BYU help or hurt Utah's cause in the PAC? We've been told by everyone in the PAC that the football season is a grind, a battle of attrition.

Let's look at the Florida model. They stopped playing Miami and everyone howled that they were playing patsies. Then they won two NCs. Only the Miami fans are howling now.

Does anyone think BYU would be apologizing for playing NMSU and Idaho if they ran the table and got into a BCS bowl?

[Blueintheface]

Why do you Utes keep saying you aren't afraid of BYU? Fear is not the issue. The issue is playng a team that doesn't benefit your program. A BCS team currently has no incentive to play a mid-major because a loss can be so detrimental if a NC is in play. Just the possibility of losing to a team like BYU makes it unappealing and far too risky.

It's comes off as insecure to play the tough guy incidentally.

[LA Ute]

Why do you Utes keep saying you aren't afraid of BYU? Fear is not the issue. The issue is playng a team that doesn't benefit your program. A BCS team currently has no incentive to play a mid-major because a loss can be so detrimental if a NC is in play. Just the possibility of losing to a team like BYU makes it unappealing and far too risky.

It's comes off as insecure to play the tough guy incidentally.

I don't fear you or BYU one bit, and you'll be sorry if you keep saying that.

[Ma'ake]

Ute fans tend to avoid talking about NCs in the hypothetical in July.

Beating or losing to BYU has zero effect in Utah's Rose Bowl prospects.

[Blueintheface]

Ute fans tend to avoid talking about NCs in the hypothetical in July.

Beating or losing to BYU has zero effect in Utah's Rose Bowl prospects.

[Coach McGuirk]

Why roll your eyes? All teams that have never won a NC don't think about them in July.

[LA Ute]

Why roll your eyes? All teams that have never won a NC don't think about them in July.

Odd, because one non-AQ team has won BCS bowl games twice after not talking about it or printing t-shirts about it, while another hasn't done quite as well while, well, talking about it and printing t-shirts about it. In July.

[Paperback Writer]

Second, Colorado beats Utah the first couple of meetings. Colorado fans are smug, unruly, and just all around bastards. They would throw it in Utah's face repeatedly. They would love this and Utah would hate the hell out of them.

That is an accurate description of CU fans but misses the mark on something important. Colorado fans will throw it in Utah fans' faces even when Utah beats Colorado repeatedly. And it will lead to hate but not to a rivalry.

But if it is business as usual for Colorado and Utah consistently beats them, I think it will take some time before this develops into a decent rivalry.

The rivalry will be one-sided if it occurs at all. The smug, unruly Colorado fans will look for some angle of superiority over Utah fans. They will no longer be able to use "we're better because we have beautiful mountains and are more enlightened than those flat lander, hick farmers to the east" because Utah has mountains just as scenic and CU will have difficulty reducing Utah fans to a "bunch of hicks with nothing to life for but football". The false assertion that "Colorado has better skiing" will get old very quickly. What will energize those CU batards will be when they start using the "religious angle" and treat Utah fans as pseudo-BYU/stereotypical Mormons. In other words, CU fans will treat Utah fans the way some Utah fans treat BYU fans by condensing a football game to religious inquisition. Welcome to your new rivalry!

I don't understand this talk about the BYU-Utah rivalry being so "dysfunctional", or "over the top" and that it should be scaled back and toned down. As a great man once said, pull the string! This rivalry is tame compared to half of the rivalry games in the South and Big 10 country. Sure there is the religion vs secular aspect that can get panties in a twist, but its still pretty mild. Its a lame excuse to call off the series. I view this type of talk as a passive aggressive way for Ute fans to stick it to the BYU fanbase. Has there been serious overtures by the Utah administrators to end the rivalry?

It's dysfunctional because it goes far beyond universities and a football game. It involves religion and can be an indictment on differing viewpoints. Both sides bear responsibility for this as BYU is portrayed as self-righteous and meddling into everyon'es business while U. of Utah is viewed as that large and spacious building.

I have not seen this slant in the SEC or Big Ten. Closest I can recall is Convicts vs Catholics with Miami-Notre Dame.