BYU vs Florida State thread

[Babs]

It got ugly in the middle, tried to recover then just collapsed into itself.

I'm really beginning to think I could have just saved myself time and stayed on CB.

[LA Ute]

At least its a concrete douchey action, instead of an opinion of one's demeanor.

But at least Kyle owned up to it. When has Bronco ever owned up to his objectionable demeanor?

[Shaka]

Hold on a second, all I've ever said are things similar to what Junkie and Hot Lunch and guys like that have already said. http://cougaruteforum.com/showpost.p...7&postcount=37

Yes, and they do a good job backing up their assertions. Also before you posted all of those links had I not already conceded that I didn't see eye to eye with CJ on everything? The same goes for Hot Lunch. However, I respect their opinions and oftentimes their differing opinions will cause me to question my own.

Both quarterbacks will struggle if the surrounding cast doesn't pick up their play.

[Commando]

Is it? How else do you measure "recruiting capability" than by whether the guy has been able to bring in good players? The number of stars his recruits got on Rivals.com?

And my argument, to be clear, is that you can't judge Bronco's recruiting ability by pointing to Heaps, Apo, etc., who have barely played at all, and who have yet to play well. By all means, let's point to guys like Hall and Unga, for whom Bronco and his staff get full credit, to show that he is a solid recruiter.

just as I thought. You are confusing the meaning of the word "recruiter" with the meaning of the word "coach."

[MarkGrace]

No man does.

I see what you did there!

[MarkGrace]

Yes, and they do a good job backing up their assertions. Also before you posted all of those links had I not already conceded that I didn't see eye to eye with CJ on everything? The same goes for Hot Lunch. However, I respect their opinions and oftentimes their differing opinions will cause me to question my own.

Both quarterbacks will struggle if the surrounding cast doesn't pick up their play.

Here's what you said in your post:

The funny thing is not arguing for Nelson. I'm arguing for honesty when games are evaluated. Junkie and I don't always agree but I respect his opinion because he can break down a game beyond the, "Nelson can't throw accurately for more than ten yards" thing.

You, Grace, and especially MPFunk really aren't doing Heaps any favors by continuing to go after Nelson.

I wasn't saying you had to see eye to eye with Junkie and HL. I was merely pointing out that you delineated groups of posters on based on their commentary, and implied that a certain group (CJ, HL) was somehow more fair-handed and making insightful commentary, while the other group (Funk, Hsaru, me) was relying on terse, unsubstantiated claims. However, as noted in all those links, all parties involved have been making virtually identical comments. There was no more "backing up" an assertion in Junkie's claims of Riley having a noodle arm than there was in my earlier comment that most of his throws are pathetic.

But, again, I really think you need reevaluate Riley's arm for what it is. I admire your "go it alone" mentality on this one, and I know a certain amount of psychological self-convincing goes on when continually defending a position, but there's a reason you are literally the only single poster I can think of that still maintains he has an adequate arm to play the position at BYU.

[All-American]

just as I thought. You are confusing the meaning of the word "recruiter" with the meaning of the word "coach."

Hardly. I'm saying that a three star ranking on rivals is no way to show whether a recruit is any good. A recruiter who can identify diamonds in the rough is at least as good a recruiter as one who brings in highly rated ones. But Rivals will like one more than the other.

[Shaka]

Here's what you said in your post:



I wasn't saying you had to see eye to eye with Junkie and HL. I was merely pointing out that you delineated groups of posters on based on their commentary, and implied that a certain group (CJ, HL) was somehow more fair-handed and making insightful commentary, while the other group (Funk, Hsaru, me) was relying on terse, unsubstantiated claims. However, as noted in all those links, all parties involved have been making virtually identical comments. There was no more "backing up" an assertion in Junkie's claims of Riley having a noodle arm than there was in my earlier comment that most of his throws are pathetic.

But, again, I really think you need reevaluate Riley's arm for what it is. I admire your "go it alone" mentality on this one, and I know a certain amount of psychological self-convincing goes on when continually defending a position, but there's a reason you are literally the only single poster I can think of that still maintains he has an adequate arm to play the position at BYU.

Ok MG, I let it all hang out. I highly value your opinion on music even though sometimes I think you try to be avant garde for the sake of being different. With that said I don't really value your opinion on football or strategy on the same level that I value CJ's and Hot Lunch's. Most of the time they provide analysis that backs up their opinions. I don't have to agree with them in every instance but I respect their opinions because they have demonstrated their knowledge on numerous occasions. My feeling towards you is that to a degree, you gravy train your football opinions from someone who has a better football IQ. I also feel the same way about Funk and Hsaru although I give Funk a pass because he's a Ute and half the time I think he's trolling.

I think Nelson can throw the short and medium stuff and if he has time, he can throw a deep ball. He's not going to gunsling like Heaps and throw a sixty yard bomb on the run but truthfully I don't think he has to in the BYU offense. I do think his arm is adequate enough to beat a team who tries a stack defense. Washington played stack quite a bit and Nelson was successful.

I've said numerous times that I don't really care who starts for us at quarterback. I will continue to defer to the coaches on that matter. What I do care about is people having a bit of a clue and being fair in their criticism. I find it comical that after the Washington game folks (including members of the media) started admitting they may have been wrong about Nelson's ability to move the ball. The same people threw him under the bus immediately after the AFA game even though he had performed adequately for three of the four halves of football he played this season. Most of these folks didn't take time to search for other reasons for the performance other than, "Nelson sucks". CB is full of these people including a bunch of new non-donor trolls. These same people are willing to cut Jake all the slack in the world for his performance against FSU but are simply unwilling to cut Nelson the same slack. It's funny because thus far Nelson has arguably been the better quarterback up until this point. Bronco knows this and there's a reason that, after the game, he insinuated that the QB question is anything but settled.

I cut Riley slack after I watched the second half of the AFA game several times and found out that no quarterback would have succeeded considering the performance of the supporting cast. Jake deserves the same because the same factors that were hurting Riley also hurt him. Also MG you need to keep in mind that I thought it was a mistake to take Heaps out of the rotation in the AFA game.

[FMCoug]

So here is an honest question for you football gurus. I can see the argument about the supporting cast. O-line, receivers, backs, etc.

With Max Hall at QB, and every other position the same, woudl the outcome of the last two games be different?

[Maximus]

Ok MG, I let it all hang out. I highly value your opinion on music even though sometimes I think you try to be avant garde for the sake of being different. With that said I don't really value your opinion on football or strategy on the same level that I value CJ's and Hot Lunch's. Most of the time they provide analysis that backs up their opinions. I don't have to agree with them in every instance but I respect their opinions because they have demonstrated their knowledge on numerous occasions. My feeling towards you is that to a degree, you gravy train your football opinions from someone who has a better football IQ. I also feel the same way about Funk and Hsaru although I give Funk a pass because he's a Ute and half the time I think he's trolling.

I think Nelson can throw the short and medium stuff and if he has time, he can throw a deep ball. He's not going to gunsling like Heaps and throw a sixty yard bomb on the run but truthfully I don't think he has to in the BYU offense. I do think his arm is adequate enough to beat a team who tries a stack defense. Washington played stack quite a bit and Nelson was successful.

I've said numerous times that I don't really care who starts for us at quarterback. I will continue to defer to the coaches on that matter. What I do care about is people having a bit of a clue and being fair in their criticism. I find it comical that after the Washington game folks (including members of the media) started admitting they may have been wrong about Nelson's ability to move the ball. The same people threw him under the bus immediately after the AFA game even though he had performed adequately for three of the four halves of football he played this season. Most of these folks didn't take time to search for other reasons for the performance other than, "Nelson sucks". CB is full of these people including a bunch of new non-donor trolls. These same people are willing to cut Jake all the slack in the world for his performance against FSU but are simply unwilling to cut Nelson the same slack. It's funny because thus far Nelson has arguably been the better quarterback up until this point. Bronco knows this and there's a reason that, after the game, he insinuated that the QB question is anything but settled.

I cut Riley slack after I watched the second half of the AFA game several times and found out that no quarterback would have succeeded considering the performance of the supporting cast. Jake deserves the same because the same factors that were hurting Riley also hurt him. Also MG you need to keep in mind that I thought it was a mistake to take Heaps out of the rotation in the AFA game.

Has riley ever shown he can throw medium or deep balls? At USU? Why did no one recruit him to be a QB?

[Shaka]

So here is an honest question for you football gurus. I can see the argument about the supporting cast. O-line, receivers, backs, etc.

With Max Hall at QB, and every other position the same, woudl the outcome of the last two games be different?

Junior or senior Max Hall? My answer is our record would be exactly the same.

[FMCoug]

Junior or senior Max Hall? My answer is our record would be exactly the same.

For the saike of argument lets say he had another year of eligibility so he is a senior this year.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

So here is an honest question for you football gurus. I can see the argument about the supporting cast. O-line, receivers, backs, etc.

With Max Hall at QB, and every other position the same, woudl the outcome of the last two games be different?

I'm going to wait until Junkie or Hot Lunch weigh in before I say anything.
:stirthepot:

[Shaka]

Has riley ever shown he can throw medium or deep balls? At USU? Why did no one recruit him to be a QB?

Hasn't shown he can do it and having the ability to do it are two different things. Also if you go view the footage on Youtube of USU vs Fresno you will see that Nelson threw a couple of nice medium range balls. Also I saw him throw some nice medium and some deep balls in practice this year the three times I attended.

I'm curious, how far do you think Nelson can throw? 35 yards? 40 yards?

[Maximus]

Hasn't shown he can do it and having the ability to do it are two different things. Also if you go view the footage on Youtube of USU vs Fresno you will see that Nelson threw a couple of nice medium range balls. Also I saw him throw some nice medium and some deep balls in practice this year the three times I attended.

I'm curious, how far do you think Nelson can throw? 35 yards? 40 yards?

You haven't answered the main question, why didn't anyone, besides USU, recruit him to be a QB?

Where were the nice medium range throws this year? The one to the wide open JJ?