The Big 12 expansion groundswell

[Applejack]

Fusnik has some really good points (Utah having better TV ratings than the Y; more accomplishments, etc.)

But he really jumped the shark with this:

Of course. I could even be convinced that collegiate/high school football becomes a regional sport in 20 years. South and north east dominated with places like California moving away from contact football.

The northeast, that haven of collegiate football dominance? Where BC, Maryland, and Rutgers are the big players? That northeast?

[fusnik]

It's all about shared perceptions. That's what polls are. How lopsided were the wins? A lot of other factors will play into that shared perception. You see the other P5 conferences as being irrelevant immediately. These things take time. Moving from an unstable P5 conference to a more stable P5 conference is a good thing while the changes take place. Being in one of the P2 conferences is also a good place to be, even if you're moving towards the bubble.

I think you have more of a catastrophic or worst-case scenario mindset here.

I dont think it’s worst case I just think it’s where it’s headed. My initial hope 2-3 years ago was 4 super regional conferences: P12/B1G/SEC/ACC with the B12 folding into those conferences and could have been convinced that was still a possibility 2-3 months ago. With the P12 imploding, let’s be frank a far superior conference to the ACC and B12 in almost every aspect, the NCAA as we know it seems destined for a 2 conference super league and the best of the rest, at least football wise. With that there has to be contraction. Again why would the SEC keep member schools that add little to their financial standing?

Imagine Texas and Oklahoma leaving a conference where they were essentially guaranteed a place in the NY6 bowls to play second fiddle to Deep South institutions where they might win the conference once every 5-10 years.

[Bo Diddley]

Fusnik has some really good points (Utah having better TV ratings than the Y; more accomplishments, etc.)

But he really jumped the shark with this:



The northeast, that haven of collegiate football dominance? Where BC, Maryland, and Rutgers are the big players? That northeast?

Oh, you mean like a National Championships, Heisman Trophies, and other various awards?

[Bo Diddley]

I dont think it’s worst case I just think it’s where it’s headed. My initial hope 2-3 years ago was 4 super regional conferences: P12/B1G/SEC/ACC with the B12 folding into those conferences and could have been convinced that was still a possibility 2-3 months ago. With the P12 imploding, let’s be frank a far superior conference to the ACC and B12 in almost every aspect, the NCAA as we know it seems destined for a 2 conference super league and the best of the rest, at least football wise. With that there has to be contraction. Again why would the SEC keep member schools that add little to their financial standing?

Imagine Texas and Oklahoma leaving a conference where they were essentially guaranteed a place in the NY6 bowls to play second fiddle to Deep South institutions where they might win the conference once every 5-10 years.

Ok, now it's hard to take you seriously.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Fusnik has some really good points (Utah having better TV ratings than the Y; more accomplishments, etc.)

But he really jumped the shark with this:



The northeast, that haven of collegiate football dominance? Where BC, Maryland, and Rutgers are the big players? That northeast?

Good catch. Football is increasingly becoming a red state/heartland sport. Which partly explains why the P12 is dying.

[fusnik]

Fusnik has some really good points (Utah having better TV ratings than the Y; more accomplishments, etc.)

But he really jumped the shark with this:



The northeast, that haven of collegiate football dominance? Where BC, Maryland, and Rutgers are the big players? That northeast?

I should’ve said B1G country not specifically northeast.

[fusnik]

Ok, now it's hard to take you seriously.

The P12 with all their sports is the best conference ever created. Is it even close?

[Jeff Lebowski]

With the P12 imploding, let’s be frank a far superior conference to the ACC and B12 in almost every aspect, ...

Lol. If that were true (it isn't) the P12 would be poaching B12 schools now rather than talking about adding SDSU and Fresno State.

[fusnik]

Lol. If that were true (it isn't) the P12 would be poaching B12 schools now rather than talking about adding SDSU and Fresno State.

P12 football is a victim of the cultural shift in regards to football and the physical trauma it causes and COVID. COVID accelerated its demise, it was headed that way for years thus why the tried to poach Texas and OU years ago. The conference knew it had to get into the south to survive.

As a conference it’s still the best all around conference.

The new B12 football conference pedigree and competition wise, is slightly better than the MWC, Sun Belt, MAAC, etc. It’s the best mid major around and will probably be the best Division 1 conference after the best of ACC and P12 get folded into the SEC and B1G.

[Jeff Lebowski]

P12 football is a victim of the cultural shift in regards to football and the physical trauma it causes and COVID. COVID accelerated its demise, it was headed that way for years thus why the tried to poach Texas and OU years ago. The conference knew it had to get into the south to survive.

As a conference it’s still the best all around conference.

The new B12 football conference pedigree and competition wise, is slightly better than the MWC, Sun Belt, MAAC, etc. It’s the best mid major around and will probably be the best Division 1 conference after the best of ACC and P12 get folded into the SEC and B1G.

That's funny.

[Jeff Lebowski]

P12 football is a victim of the cultural shift in regards to football and the physical trauma it causes and COVID. COVID accelerated its demise, it was headed that way for years thus why the tried to poach Texas and OU years ago. The conference knew it had to get into the south to survive.

As a conference it’s still the best all around conference.

The new B12 football conference pedigree and competition wise, is slightly better than the MWC, Sun Belt, MAAC, etc. It’s the best mid major around and will probably be the best Division 1 conference after the best of ACC and P12 get folded into the SEC and B1G.

This is all very easy to rebut with hard data, but I think you are just trolling at this point.

[fusnik]

This is all very easy to rebut with hard data, but I think you are just trolling at this point.

What data?

Even removing USC/Texas/Oklahoma/UCLA P10 does better than B12 television wise.

Performance wise on the field P10 is a better product. The top half of the P10 is better than the top half of the B12.

You might say well B12 is getting offered more money right now than the P10 but that’s a given since does anyone have confidence the P10 is long for the tooth?

[Jeff Lebowski]

What data?

Even removing USC/Texas/Oklahoma/UCLA P10 does better than B12 television wise.

And yet, they can't seem to muster a decent media rights offer. Hmm....

Performance wise on the field P10 is a better product. The top half of the P10 is better than the top half of the B12.

Obviously you weren't paying attention last year. Not remotely true.

You might say well B12 is getting offered more money right now than the P10 but that’s a given since does anyone have confidence the P10 is long for the tooth?

This is circular logic.

[Omaha 680]

The P12 with all their sports is the best conference ever created. Is it even close?

I think you tipped your hand here that the last few page of this thread have been a big troll. You can't preach about how revenue drives everything for a dozen posts and the SEC/B1G should kick out their dead weight but then say the Pac12 is the best conference ever because they are super good at water polo, swimming and softball, and if they can fold everyone is doomed. No one is disputing the conference of champions indeed has won a lot of national championships in a lot of sports. But the truth is in the sports that drive revenue, the Pac 12 has been on average pretty awful ever since Vince Young broke DDD's heart. The Big 12 has backwater schools but those backwaters also have large passionate fanbases that won't won't get them into the B1G/SEC club but will keep them competitive. Football isn't going away in the NortheastMidwest, and considering the challenges facing outsiders, I like the Big12's chances to compete going forward.

Side note: I'm a little surprised the value of these TV contracts continues to skyrocket. I'm not convinced this is sustainable in the age of cord-cutting. I am one who thinks two superconferences are possible but not inevitable. If TV money ever peaks due to regionalization of football interest and general cord cutting, I think it is more likely a few heavyweights forge their own individual football contracts than conferences boot out their lowest-rated teams.

[Bo Diddley]

I think you tipped your hand here that the last few page of this thread have been a big troll. You can't preach about how revenue drives everything for a dozen posts and the SEC/B1G should kick out their dead weight but then say the Pac12 is the best conference ever because they are super good at water polo, swimming and softball, and if they can fold everyone is doomed. No one is disputing the conference of champions indeed has won a lot of national championships in a lot of sports. But the truth is in the sports that drive revenue, the Pac 12 has been on average pretty awful ever since Vince Young broke DDD's heart. The Big 12 has backwater schools but those backwaters also have large passionate fanbases that won't won't get them into the B1G/SEC club but will keep them competitive. Football isn't going away in the NortheastMidwest, and considering the challenges facing outsiders, I like the Big12's chances to compete going forward.

Side note: I'm a little surprised the value of these TV contracts continues to skyrocket. I'm not convinced this is sustainable in the age of cord-cutting. I am one who thinks two superconferences are possible but not inevitable. If TV money ever peaks due to regionalization of football interest and general cord cutting, I think it is more likely a few heavyweights forge their own individual football contracts than conferences boot out their lowest-rated teams.

It's speculation how far it goes, but I think it's likely, though exactly what all that even means is a big question mark. No one can see the future, so you never really know what's going to happen.

It's peculiar just how much some fans drank the Kool-Aid. It really gets in the way of a rational discussion. Of course, I suppose that's the nature of fans, and the nature of sports discussions, so it really isn't all that peculiar after all.