The Big 12 expansion groundswell

[beefytee]

Am I the only one who thinks the 'Big XII at all costs' mentality is a bad thing? I really want BYU football to survive, but if the only way it can is for us to break our word to the WCC, then maybe it has to die. Trying to fix one bad decision by making another bad decision is never a good idea. This is especially true when it comes to keeping our word, in my opinion. One of the biggest knocks I hear against Mormons (and I admit that this is anecdotal) is that they lack integrity in business. If the Church demonstrates that they are willing to break commitments to make a buck, then it would appear to give license to every other member to do the same. Like I said, I love BYU football, but I'd rather start following Wyoming than have the Church compromise its integrity. On the other hand, if BYU is just holding out because they are being greedy, then that would seem just as bad, and they need to pull their heads out of their elbows.

If BYU did commit to the WCC for a certain number of years and didn't have a get out of jail for a BCS conference, then yes, they deserve to die.

My guess is that the WCC knew what BYU was when they picked them up.

[jay santos]

Am I the only one who thinks the 'Big XII at all costs' mentality is a bad thing? I really want BYU football to survive, but if the only way it can is for us to break our word to the WCC, then maybe it has to die. Trying to fix one bad decision by making another bad decision is never a good idea. This is especially true when it comes to keeping our word, in my opinion. One of the biggest knocks I hear against Mormons (and I admit that this is anecdotal) is that they lack integrity in business. If the Church demonstrates that they are willing to break commitments to make a buck, then it would appear to give license to every other member to do the same. Like I said, I love BYU football, but I'd rather start following Wyoming than have the Church compromise its integrity. On the other hand, if BYU is just holding out because they are being greedy, then that would seem just as bad, and they need to pull their heads out of their elbows.

I think you need to get out more. Mormons have as good a reputation in the business world as any group of minorities. We're known as hard working, organized, and good leaders. If anything negative, it is that we can be provincial or choose family over career.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

I thought this was funny:

www.cougarbored.com

Isn't that your brother's website?

[Uncle Ted]

Did BYU sign some agreement that they would never leave the WCC under any circumstances?

Just that chalk line drawn around Karl G. Maeser...

But if the Cougars did want to leave, they wouldn’t get held up by the WCC. The league fully understands that BYU may want to join a major football conference, but the WCC isn’t fretting an imminent departure. The conference is pumping up BYU’s admission with higher-profile members Gonzaga and Saint Mary’s and moved its tournament semifinals away from Sunday for the Cougars.

Bottom line: BYU will take its time surveying the scene. Could the Cougars leave independence and the WCC? Of course. But, as you can see from the interview with commissioner Jamie Zaninovich at the top of this post, no one seems to be overly worried in the WCC offices in San Bruno, Calif.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebaske...ossed-with-byu

[Viking]

Am I the only one who thinks the 'Big XII at all costs' mentality is a bad thing? I really want BYU football to survive, but if the only way it can is for us to break our word to the WCC, then maybe it has to die. Trying to fix one bad decision by making another bad decision is never a good idea. This is especially true when it comes to keeping our word, in my opinion. One of the biggest knocks I hear against Mormons (and I admit that this is anecdotal) is that they lack integrity in business. If the Church demonstrates that they are willing to break commitments to make a buck, then it would appear to give license to every other member to do the same. Like I said, I love BYU football, but I'd rather start following Wyoming than have the Church compromise its integrity. On the other hand, if BYU is just holding out because they are being greedy, then that would seem just as bad, and they need to pull their heads out of their elbows.

Look, this is sensitive, no doubt.

But what about the commitment BYU has made to us, the fans and the donors?

I wrote a meaningful (to me) check in the early 2000s for the practice facility, etc., and have given pretty meaningfully since and the pitch has always been that supporting BYU increases the profile of the university and the Church. While I'm no longer a believer in the latter, I still see virtue in both outcomes as the Church is as very good institution.

So, I want the institution to keep its word but how can you not consider not just those who've given money but the unquantifiable energy that fans feel and expend?

I grew up in Texas and this is a little more "emotional" than might otherwise be because I got in multiple fistfights as a kid over my faith and to have BYU playing regularly in my backyard would have done wonders for public perception of Mormons. My kids are Mormon and I have a resume that reads Mormon all over it.

I want BYU to be highly visible. I want it to excel.

I don't want it to become Oral Roberts.

[Goatnapper'96]

Am I the only one who thinks the 'Big XII at all costs' mentality is a bad thing? I really want BYU football to survive, but if the only way it can is for us to break our word to the WCC, then maybe it has to die. Trying to fix one bad decision by making another bad decision is never a good idea. This is especially true when it comes to keeping our word, in my opinion. One of the biggest knocks I hear against Mormons (and I admit that this is anecdotal) is that they lack integrity in business. If the Church demonstrates that they are willing to break commitments to make a buck, then it would appear to give license to every other member to do the same. Like I said, I love BYU football, but I'd rather start following Wyoming than have the Church compromise its integrity. On the other hand, if BYU is just holding out because they are being greedy, then that would seem just as bad, and they need to pull their heads out of their elbows.

Didn't the WCC put out some announcement last week that conferene members were free to leave without any legal reprucussions? I want BYU in the Big-12 and am willing to live with criticisms about Mormons' integrity. Others perceptions of the Mormon Church colored by BYU sports usually don't strike me as particularly objective and uncolored by their own personal sports devotions. Saying all that, if I were to come to the conclusion that BYU was not upfront with the WCC while negotiating membership I would be disapointed that BYU was stupid. However, in true chaismic tradition it is my opinion that the WCC announcement about conference realignment indicates that BYU was open and upfront that WCC membership was not our likely final state.

[Goatnapper'96]

I hope so. I am terrified that this might be the University's stance and that it would permanently ruin our chances of becoming a member of the big boys club.

Why are you terrified about this? I am trying to find something in BYU's sports history that causes you such irrational hysteria, but I am missing it.

[byu71]

Look, this is sensitive, no doubt.

But what about the commitment BYU has made to us, the fans and the donors?

I wrote a meaningful (to me) check in the early 2000s for the practice facility, etc., and have given pretty meaningfully since and the pitch has always been that supporting BYU increases the profile of the university and the Church. While I'm no longer a believer in the latter, I still see virtue in both outcomes as the Church is as very good institution.

So, I want the institution to keep its word but how can you not consider not just those who've given money but the unquantifiable energy that fans feel and expend?

I grew up in Texas and this is a little more "emotional" than might otherwise be because I got in multiple fistfights as a kid over my faith and to have BYU playing regularly in my backyard would have done wonders for public perception of Mormons. My kids are Mormon and I have a resume that reads Mormon all over it.

I want BYU to be highly visible. I want it to excel.

I don't want it to become Oral Roberts.

Amen. I know I have told the story of the pitch to get my brothers and I to kick in in 2000. We did and less than two years later the first promise was broken. I consider the mantra of give us the money and we will give you a big time program to also be a promise that is broken.

I will backtrack, if I promise on here to only post uplifiting posts, I guess I really haven't broken a promise when I don't. You all should have known that was a promise I wasn't going to keep.

[EuropeanFootballMale]

Why are you terrified about this? I am trying to find something in BYU's sports history that causes you such irrational hysteria, but I am missing it.

Think back to right before the New Mexico basketball game.

[Goatnapper'96]

Think back to right before the New Mexico basketball game.

Those are very different situations. There are aspects of BYU's program that are limiting to potential success. Clearly the HC program is that. There is also the non-negotiable sunday play issue that likely causes conferences to pause. However, when has BYU ever shied away from more exposure and more $$. To the true BYU mind this is a greater opportunity because it will allow BYU even more exposure the next time a high profile HC violation strikes and thus the privileged blessing to demonstrate moral superiority to more folks!

I am more concerned about BYU competing at that level than I am BYU saying no. Unless the invitation is contingent upon BYU breaking a non-negotiable value (i.e. Sunday play) there is no way I see the BYU mindset saying "no thank you." I believe the sentiment that BYU would say "no thanks" to be irrational hysteria that is inconsistent with BYU's mentality.

[byu71]

I am more concerned about BYU competing at that level than I am BYU saying no. Unless the invitation is contingent upon BYU breaking a non-negotiable value (i.e. Sunday play) there is no way I see the BYU mindset saying "no thank you." I believe the sentiment that BYU would say "no thanks" to be irrational hysteria that is inconsistent with BYU's mentality.

If I was a decision maker this would be my concern. We get into the BIG12 and get beat up continually. Fans lose interest or worse yet start screaming for BYU to take steps to get more competitive.

I think there could be the same mentality that happened in the mid 90's. Somebody said "this football thing is getting to big. Lavell is more popular and draws more of a crowd than the GA's".

I wouldn't doubt this "backlash" against the authorities at BYU is troubling.

[New Mexican Disaster]

Why are you terrified about this? I am trying to find something in BYU's sports history that causes you such irrational hysteria, but I am missing it.

This is about business and institutional culture, not necessarily sports although the Davies and Unga incidents and all the other attendant honor code issues give me reason be wary the decision makers.

I spent 15 years living in household that was deeply connected to BYU, and there were a number decisions that struck me as favoring "integtrity," over all other factors-only integrity would not have been so defined by any other place on the earth.

I will be incredibly relieved if BYU gets into the Big 12. But I am always scared that someone does not want to show off their righteousness by taking the more difficult path that is more pure.

[Viking]

If I was a decision maker this would be my concern. We get into the BIG12 and get beat up continually. Fans lose interest or worse yet start screaming for BYU to take steps to get more competitive.

I think there could be the same mentality that happened in the mid 90's. Somebody said "this football thing is getting to big. Lavell is more popular and draws more of a crowd than the GA's".

I wouldn't doubt this "backlash" against the authorities at BYU is troubling.

There are a lot of GAs who think Mormons should cheer for Utah football and use BYU as a religious institution.

[Goatnapper'96]

If I was a decision maker this would be my concern. We get into the BIG12 and get beat up continually. Fans lose interest or worse yet start screaming for BYU to take steps to get more competitive.

I think there could be the same mentality that happened in the mid 90's. Somebody said "this football thing is getting to big. Lavell is more popular and draws more of a crowd than the GA's".

I wouldn't doubt this "backlash" against the authorities at BYU is troubling.

That is my hope, and one they are in they will have no choice but to do all within their power to compete. But I am of the opinion that BYU is pretty much already doing that.

[Cougarmandias]

Look, this is sensitive, no doubt.

But what about the commitment BYU has made to us, the fans and the donors?

I wrote a meaningful (to me) check in the early 2000s for the practice facility, etc., and have given pretty meaningfully since and the pitch has always been that supporting BYU increases the profile of the university and the Church. While I'm no longer a believer in the latter, I still see virtue in both outcomes as the Church is as very good institution.

So, I want the institution to keep its word but how can you not consider not just those who've given money but the unquantifiable energy that fans feel and expend?

I grew up in Texas and this is a little more "emotional" than might otherwise be because I got in multiple fistfights as a kid over my faith and to have BYU playing regularly in my backyard would have done wonders for public perception of Mormons. My kids are Mormon and I have a resume that reads Mormon all over it.

I want BYU to be highly visible. I want it to excel.

I don't want it to become Oral Roberts.

My one knock on the Church and by extension BYU as an institutional culture (well, OK, not my only knock, but as a bonafide TBM I don't have very many of them), is that they tend to think like the parable of the prodigal son where its all about bending over backwards to accommodate outsiders and potential growth, but there is no effort to accommodate people who are already on board, who are just taken for granted.

Yes, in this crappy analogy I did just compare the WCC to drunken, spendthrift pig-lovers.