The Big 12 expansion groundswell

[lambdacoug]

Ha, I win!

Congrats, man!

[myboynoah]

Congrats, man!

[HBCoug]

Ha. No question the HC is anti-gay. It's also anti-promiscuity, pre-marital sex, porn, JO'ing, pegging, soaking, NCMO'ing, and face cards. So when someone says that gays and straights are treated equally, I don't think they're being disingenuous but they're not providing full context. That is, the Law of Chastity as enforced by the BYU Honor Code Office and the LDS church allows straights a lot of leeway on the base paths. Get to first? Great. Steal second? Tsk, tsk. Get to third? Skip sac for a few months. Reach home and you're out for a year or so. But if a gay dude gets walked the next Sunday he's feeling Godly sorrow outside the bishops office with his head in his hands.

But there's a larger point that's interesting to me. So it's establish that every university in the country discriminates. They discriminate based on intelligence, academic performance, religion, race, geography, and culture. Universities have entire departments established to differentiate who they want to accept. Discrimination, even that based on immutable traits, is acceptable in a university context because it helps establish the learning environment and reputation the university wants to promote. So it's not a line of whether BYU or another University can draw a line. They all draw a line. But rather it's where the line is drawn and the intent behind it. BYU really needs to figure out how to either move the line or blur the line. A great place to start would be by removing the cruelty of a University bureaucracy and make this all about a basic EE or declaration of faith.

Good post, but I would've gone with "J'ingO" instead of "JO'ing."

[Art Vandelay]

Gender equality = political correctness gone awry

Racial equality = political correctness gone awry

Equal rights for LGBT = political correctness gone awry

Same bad argument applied in all eras of progress. All I can say is that if these things are all political correctness gone awry, then we need more of it.

Many BYU fans are posting things about how people opposed to BYU's discrimination are "bigots" and that the brethren shouldn't compromise their "standards" and "values." Others imply that the honor code is somehow treating gays and straights equally, which is laughable.

I want BYU to be in the Big 12 as much as the next BYU fan, but the fan base itself has shown its true colors over the last few days.

The comparison to the Klan is hyperbole. But the point stands. Mormons have a racist past. Mormons have a homophobic present. Having racist and homophobic policies is legal, but that doesn't mean others shouldn't have condemned you for it.

For being one of the smartest guys on the board (with only 105 posts! Yet if feels like sooooo much more, for some reason) you often say dumb things. You honestly believe the average fan and/or lds member is less tolerant now than they were 5 years ago, let alone 20 years ago? You must not have paid very close attention to things back when you knew things beyond a shadow of a doubt.

[Commando]

actually we arent talking about sexual orientation.

I was about to say the same thing, but I think I don't want to be in this conversation.

[YOhio]

Good post, but I would've gone with "J'ingO" instead of "JO'ing."

Oh so you're THAT guy now.

[TexTechCoug]

The real question is whether or not it is OK for a university, whose sponsor is a religious institution, to discriminate based on behavior.

I have no problem with a religious institution saying that there are certain behaviors that are prohibited, especially when enrollment and attendance at that institution are wholly voluntary.

All universities discriminate based on particular behaviors, BYU has chosen to completely ban any form of homosexual expression and also to significantly limit heterosexual activities when compared to almost all other US universities. BYU's standards are certainly different, but not necessarily wrong and certainly should be protected.

I actually like BYU's standards, even if I think there are issues with implementation.

As far as gays being treated poorly when visiting BYU, Mormons have a tendency to be very accommodating and I don't think you'd see more boorish behavior toward gays at a football game at BYU than at most universities.

[myboynoah]

The real question is whether or not it is OK for a university, whose sponsor is a religious institution, to discriminate based on behavior.

I have no problem with a religious institution saying that there are certain behaviors that are prohibited, especially when enrollment and attendance at that institution are wholly voluntary.

All universities discriminate based on particular behaviors, BYU has chosen to completely ban any form of homosexual expression and also to significantly limit heterosexual activities when compared to almost all other US universities. BYU's standards are certainly different, but not necessarily wrong and certainly should be protected.

I actually like BYU's standards, even if I think there are issues with implementation.

As far as gays being treated poorly when visiting BYU, Mormons have a tendency to be very accommodating and I don't think you'd see more boorish behavior toward gays at a football game at BYU than at most universities.

Yeah, so anyone who suggests otherwise is very ignorant and/or very bigoted.

[TexTechCoug]

Yeah, so anyone who suggests otherwise is very ignorant and/or very bigoted.

???

[creekster]

I'm in a depo today and get done, beat feet to the Duluth airport where I jump on my plane and happily see there are a LOT of new posts in this thread but the. Discover that almost all of it is Byron Marchand bleating about a tangent! Get that crap
Out of here. What is it with him
And Su. If you're so freakin superior go take it somewhere where they care.

[myboynoah]

???

In reference to this:

As far as gays being treated poorly when visiting BYU, Mormons have a tendency to be very accommodating and I don't think you'd see more boorish behavior toward gays at a football game at BYU than at most universities.

It is an ignorant and/or bigoted move to make such accusations about dangerous treatment. The move appears to fueled by bigotry.

[TexTechCoug]

In reference to this:



It is an ignorant and/or bigoted move to make such accusations about dangerous treatment. The move appears to fueled by bigotry.

Oh, I'm slow.

[falafel]

I'm in a depo today and get done, beat feet to the Duluth airport where I jump on my plane and happily see there are a LOT of new posts in this thread but the. Discover that almost all of it is Byron Marchand bleating about a tangent! Get that crap
Out of here. What is it with him
And Su. If you're so freakin superior go take it somewhere where they care.

:clap:

[Blueintheface]

I'm in a depo today and get done, beat feet to the Duluth airport where I jump on my plane and happily see there are a LOT of new posts in this thread but the. Discover that almost all of it is Byron Marchand bleating about a tangent! Get that crap
Out of here. What is it with him
And Su. If you're so freakin superior go take it somewhere where they care.

This new version of Creekster is awesome!!!!

#summerofthegibbon

[ByronMarchant]

What I'm hearing:

"Everyone discriminates. It's ok to discriminate. Some people discriminate based on academics, and others based on whether people are gay! No big deal!"

And

"Baylor also doesn't accept gay people so it's OK we don't accept gay people!"

And

"The honor code bans face cards too. So no big deal if gays are banned. Black people are ok as of 1978. It's just the way it is. No big deal!"


What I say:

BYU is an anomaly (in a bad way) because Mormons have chosen to:
1) minimize the problems
2) justify evil (or even perceive evil to be good)
3) defend by pointing out that other universities have the same or similar problems

The worst thing any of you can do for BYU is defend the indefensible. You're only harming the future of BYU (and the future of Mormonism) by defending unjust policies. If more people would wake up and speak up, change would be more likely. That's my opinion.