"You Gotta Love It Baby" Official Jazz thread

[MarkGrace]

Like the 45/39 shooting split after the break with one of the best FTA rates on the team even while playing many of those minutes at a secondary position?

He was maddeningly bad to start the season. If he's going to have a career he's got to be able to score, and he couldn't make anything. But then Corbin stopped jerking him around, gave him consistent minutes game after game, and his play and shot improved significantly. I also thought his on-ball defense improved quite a bit last year.

I was thinking more like the 11.51 PER he put up for the year. ha. Kanter's minutes were every bit as sporadic and inconsistent and he managed a 17.65. That kind of production, at least for me, is enough where I'm anxious to see what he could do with more time. Burk's was right in line with Foye, who basically only has skill.

I've already said I'm willing to give Burks something of a mulligan this season with the new position, and he had some positive trends and I thought he really improved in several areas. And his minutes were inconsistent and all that. That said, he still underwhelmed and did not look good for a big chunk of the year, so I'm not terribly concerned with him starting or playing big minutes this year. Also, as noted previously, I'm not convinced his skill meshes well with the starting group right now. I'm still just fine with him coming off the bench, though I'd obviously like to see him get more than the 18 minutes he got per night last year.

[smokymountainrain]

I was thinking more like the 11.51 PER he put up for the year. ha. Kanter's minutes were every bit as sporadic and inconsistent and he managed a 17.65. That kind of production, at least for me, is enough where I'm anxious to see what he could do with more time. Burk's was right in line with Foye, who basically only has skill.

At least you're comparing apples to apples. A 6'11" bull of a post player to a 6'6" wing who played a ton of PG. I wouldn't give a rat's ass if Burks were the worst player in the league when playing sporadic minutes, but always staying under 15 or so minutes, as long as when he does playing 20+ he is really good. The solution to having such a player? Play him 20+ minutes every night. Doesn't seem like rocket science.

[MarkGrace]

Jacob made a similar point and I think it has some merit. Here is a list of wings who would arguable "help" the team as much as Mayo, but would fit better with the direction the Jazz should be going (guys who would be okay coming off the bench, take less money and wouldn't have to play starters minutes):

Korver Yes, even Korver would be a better fit than Mayo.
Stackhouse
Belinelli
Morrow
Francisco Garcia
Billups - perfect in the sense that he can play both guard spots and would be helluva a lot better to mentor Burke than effing Tinsley
Marquis Daniels
Ronnie Brewer
Udrih
Wesley Johnson
Tracy McGrady
Ginobili
Pietrus
DeMarre
Webster

IOW, you can get good players, players that would help as much as Mayo, but would cost less and be willing to come of the bench and play bench minutes.

I have a hard time believing most of these guys would help as much. McGrady? Stackhouse? These guys are cooked. They've got no production left in them. Brewer still can't shoot a lick and still gives us all the same problems he did before (especially when Burks isn't a threat). Lindsay has said they are making shooters a priority, which they should because the Jazz have been such a poor shooting team overall for years now and have kind of be left behind by the league in that regard.

It's not like I'm married to the idea of signing Mayo or think he should be a priority or anything. I'm just saying I'd take him for the right price. But if he's going to get $8-10mm, forget it. Like BGR suggested, I'd take Reddick for less.

[smokymountainrain]

I have a hard time believing most of these guys would help as much. McGrady? Stackhouse? These guys are cooked. They've got no production left in them. Brewer still can't shoot a lick and still gives us all the same problems he did before (especially when Burks isn't a threat). Lindsay has said they are making shooters a priority, which they should because the Jazz have been such a poor shooting team overall for years now and have kind of be left behind by the league in that regard.

Like BGR suggested, I'd take Reddick for less.

That's fair. That's why my list was a long one. Sure you can pick apart some of them, but there are plenty of players out there who fill that shooting need, yet won't cost a lot nor demand to play a ton. Mayo and Corbin are just a really bad pairing.

[MarkGrace]

At least you're comparing apples to apples. A 6'11" bull of a post player to a 6'6" wing who played a ton of PG. I wouldn't give a rat's ass if Burks were the worst player in the league when playing sporadic minutes, but always staying under 15 or so minutes, as long as when he does playing 20+ he is really good. The solution to having such a player? Play him 20+ minutes every night. Doesn't seem like rocket science.

So what do you want for an apples comparison? That he didn't even rank in the top 50 in the league at his position? Or do we have to start sorting through his position for guys that also played sporadic minutes before we come to the same conclusion that it's just not very good production overall (especially when you're not providing another intangible benefit, like floor-spacing) any way you slice it? I mean Hayward was in the same position going into year 2, and he produced more and executed better and got more minutes. That doesn't seem like rocket science either.

But I'm not sure what we're arguing about. I already said I'd like him to play 20 a night as well. He's just not to the point where I'm going to be concerned if they don't hand a starting gig to him playing big minutes this year.

[FN Phat]

Tracy McGrady? That man can't even stand up straight due to his back. Stackhouse = Mayo? Now you are stretching the facts to fit your scenario.

EDIT: I stepped away from my computer for about 45 minutes. I should have read the updated thread. MG made my point much better and in less of a condescending tone!

[SandYFan]

What NBA players would you be willing to pay a max contract ($17-20 million+/yr) to play for your team?

I did this exercise today and found it is a surprisingly small list.

LeBron
Durant
Marc Gasol
Pau Gasol (maybe)
Kevin Love (if healthy)
Kyrie Irving (if healthy)
Hibbert
Chris Paul

And I think that's it. Yours?

[cougjunkie]

What NBA players would you be willing to pay a max contract ($17-20 million+/yr) to play for your team?

I did this exercise today and found it is a surprisingly small list.

LeBron
Durant
Marc Gasol
Pau Gasol (maybe)
Kevin Love (if healthy)
Kyrie Irving (if healthy)
Hibbert
Chris Paul

And I think that's it. Yours?

Lebron
Durant
Kyrie Irving
Harden
Steph Curry
Melo
Derrick Rose

[SandYFan]

Lebron
Durant
Kyrie Irving
Harden
Steph Curry
Melo
Derrick Rose

I can't get the memory of LeBron shutting Rose down in the 2011 ECF out of my head. He absolutely destroyed him, and I don't think Round 2 would go any better for Derrick.

I'm on the fence with Harden and Curry.

[Blueintheface]

For once in my Jazz fanhood I'm going to trust the front office to find some shooting that doesn't come at a cost of playing some semblance of defense. Lindsdey earned that right with me on draft night.

[MarkGrace]

What NBA players would you be willing to pay a max contract ($17-20 million+/yr) to play for your team?

I did this exercise today and found it is a surprisingly small list.

LeBron
Durant
Marc Gasol
Pau Gasol (maybe)
Kevin Love (if healthy)
Kyrie Irving (if healthy)
Hibbert
Chris Paul

And I think that's it. Yours?

I'd drop Hibbert for sure. His offensive production is good (though not great), and his defensive impact is big, but it's hard to justify that kind of cash for a guy who can't play 30 mins a night because of his plodding nature. He's 5 seasons in and has still never averaged more than 30 mins a night in any given season.

I'd also drop Gasol.

[Eddie]

I can't get the memory of LeBron shutting Rose down in the 2011 ECF out of my head. He absolutely destroyed him, and I don't think Round 2 would go any better for Derrick.

I'm on the fence with Harden and Curry.

Is that what kept Rose from recovering in time for the playoffs? Fear of a repeat?

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

KOC just said they tried to trade up to get Burke at 6, 7, and 8 before Minnesota finally said they'd trade out of the 9th pick.

More: Burke is definitely a leader at PG, a guy who was asked to score more at Michigan than he might be here. Most positive thing about Gobert is how hard he works. Gobert might even get over to play a few summer league games. If before the draft you had told him they'd get Burke, Gobert, and Neto, he'd ask you how many future picks they had to give up to get it done. KOC feels very positive about getting the 3 guys they did for how relatively little they had to give up to get it. Neto having a good year in ACB is very impressive. Lindsey saw Neto play in Eurocamp and felt he was the best PG there. (He was MVP of Eurocamp, so not sure how much it means to say he was the best PG there, not like a diamond in the rough).

The Jazz have emphasized that about Gobert over and over. They apparently really did homework on him to make sure he wasn't a guy doing something he hated just so he could get paid. KOC and Lindsey keep saying that he plays hard, practices hard, and really wants to get better.

[SandYFan]

I'd drop Hibbert for sure. His offensive production is good (though not great), and his defensive impact is big, but it's hard to justify that kind of cash for a guy who can't play 30 mins a night because of his plodding nature. He's 5 seasons in and has still never averaged more than 30 mins a night in any given season.

I'd also drop Gasol.

The thing with both of those guys is that they have such a massive impact on your team's defense. With those guys you can do so many things to disrupt what the other guys want to do. Great defense can take you far. Tack on a few scorers and you're in a great spot. Indiana and Memphis both suffered for points. Get Hibbert or Gasol alongside a scoring duo and you're in a great spot.

Is that what kept Rose from recovering in time for the playoffs? Fear of a repeat?

No idea. I think he was just being very cautious about coming back too soon. I think he looked at the Bulls, decided they weren't winning it all even if he came back, and chose not to risk it. It was a smart move, as far as I'm concerned.

[UtahJazzFan88]

Mike Dunleavy signs a 2 year/6 million dollar deal with the Bulls. Maybe he gave a discounted rate for the Bulls, but that has to be good news for the market if they want a SG/SF, can get one pretty cheap.