"You Gotta Love It Baby" Official Jazz thread

[Blueintheface]

Favors has been a pimp for years.

You are very wise.

[MarkGrace]

PG - Burke
SG - Hayward
SF - Jabari
PF - Favors
C - Kanter

6th - Burks

What is this team's defensive potential? Right now we basically have that team but with Marvin and Dick in two of those slots, and I think Marvin and Dick are better than the guys they'd be replaced with. And yet, that's the worst damn defensive team in the league right there. In that starting lineup I only see two guys who I think can be above average defensively at their position -- Favors and Hayward. Burke will always be below average, and Jabari strikes me as that as well. Kanter I can't get a read on. He posted some incredible numbers last year, but this year has looked terrible. He's strong and can hold position on the blocks, but with his lack of great height and mobility I think at best he's average.

I just don't know that you can be a top 5 defensive team (the type that's usually a real contender) with that group. Changing the coach and scheme would help a hell of a lot (Boozer and Jefferson go start on other teams and still manage to be part of top defensive efficiency units; you mean if you don't have a slow-footed C go way out on the floor it will help prevent other teams from exposing his lack of footspeed?!), but I'm still not sure the physical tools would be there.

[smokymountainrain]

PG - Burke
SG - Hayward
SF - Jabari
PF - Favors
C - Kanter

6th - Burks

What is this team's defensive potential? Right now we basically have that team but with Marvin and Dick in two of those slots, and I think Marvin and Dick are better than the guys they'd be replaced with. And yet, that's the worst damn defensive team in the league right there. In that starting lineup I only see two guys who I think can be above average defensively at their position -- Favors and Hayward. Burke will always be below average, and Jabari strikes me as that as well. Kanter I can't get a read on. He posted some incredible numbers last year, but this year has looked terrible. He's strong and can hold position on the blocks, but with his lack of great height and mobility I think at best he's average.

I just don't know that you can be a top 5 defensive team (the type that's usually a real contender) with that group. Changing the coach and scheme would help a hell of a lot (Boozer and Jefferson go start on other teams and still manage to be part of top defensive efficiency units; you mean if you don't have a slow-footed C go way out on the floor it will help prevent other teams from exposing his lack of footspeed?!), but I'm still not sure the physical tools would be there.

I agree. That's not a good defensive lineup. In terms of the draft, however, I'm not sure who would be a good choice defensively. As big a fan as I am of Randle - I think right now he is the best freshman - he's probably about as bad defensively as Parker. If you have a shot at Embiid, do you take him and play him with Favors, Kanter and Gobert? Wiggins seems to have some potential as a defender, so maybe that's the guy. Smart is already a very good wing defender and should be above average in the NBA, so maybe you take him and move Hayward to the SF. Then you have Smart, Hayward and Favors as above average defenders, with Burke and Kanter below average and Burks off the bench as a decent defensive option.

[Jacob]

Forget it. This draft is over-rated. They can't play defense.

I wouldn't worry about it. Jabari could score 20ppg next year and can create and the Jazz need that more than anything, IMO. New coach and a new scheme solves a lot of the defensive problems. Not to mention that the Jazz haven't even tried to add pieces to this team yet. This is a team of 5 yong guys and 5 other guys needed to fill a roster or collect assets. But while I'm being positive, Rudy Gobert has the potential to be an excellent defender. I don't look at or know where to find advanced college stats, but it seems like Jabari is doing OK in the blocks and steals department. The NBA is all about team defensive concepts. To me, its like worrying if Larry Bird will be a good enough defender to win a title. The future team is not set in stone, so draft the best player regardless of whether you think he will never be 1st team all defense.

Its fun to discuss, but I'm mostly worried about where we end up in the draft. 5th worst record and drafting 7th would be so bad. But getting Smart, Exhum or Randle at 6 wouldn't be so bad.

2 years from now:

Burke
Hayward
Parker
Favors
Gobert/Kanter

I don't see why that couldn't be a great defensive lineup. Throw in some guys that are floating around and are fine defenders i.e. demare carrol, wes matthews. You also have the ability to go small with Jabari at PF

[cougjunkie]

Forget it. This draft is over-rated. They can't play defense.

I wouldn't worry about it. Jabari could score 20ppg next year and can create and the Jazz need that more than anything, IMO. New coach and a new scheme solves a lot of the defensive problems. Not to mention that the Jazz haven't even tried to add pieces to this team yet. This is a team of 5 yong guys and 5 other guys needed to fill a roster or collect assets. But while I'm being positive, Rudy Gobert has the potential to be an excellent defender. I don't look at or know where to find advanced college stats, but it seems like Jabari is doing OK in the blocks and steals department. The NBA is all about team defensive concepts. To me, its like worrying if Larry Bird will be a good enough defender to win a title. The future team is not set in stone, so draft the best player regardless of whether you think he will never be 1st team all defense.

Its fun to discuss, but I'm mostly worried about where we end up in the draft. 5th worst record and drafting 7th would be so bad. But getting Smart, Exhum or Randle at 6 wouldn't be so bad.

2 years from now:

Burke
Hayward
Parker
Favors
Gobert/Kanter

I don't see why that couldn't be a great defensive lineup. Throw in some guys that are floating around and are fine defenders i.e. demare carrol, wes matthews. You also have the ability to go small with Jabari at PF

Where will the money come from to pay a guy like Wes Mathews $6 million a year to help on defense?

[Jacob]

Where will the money come from to pay a guy like Wes Mathews $6 million a year to help on defense?

Larry Millers Trust; ticket sales; advertising receipts; TV revenues; Brooklyn's luxury tax, adn on and on. Really, I don't understand the question. The Jazz are way under the salary cap for the next 2 years. But I was only mentioning guys who the Jazz have had in the past at cheap $$. Also, $6m is the mid-level exception. IOW, there is plenty of money to sign or trade for a guy as good as or better than Wes Matthews over the next couple years.

[MarkGrace]

Forget it. This draft is over-rated. They can't play defense.

Not the entire draft! Jabari and Randle I don't think will be up to much on defense. Embiid, Wiggins and Smart all look like they'll be capable.

[Jacob]

Not the entire draft! Jabari and Randle I don't think will be up to much on defense. Embiid, Wiggins and Smart all look like they'll be capable.

So, the draft is stronger after pick 3. That's good news!

Kidding! But seriously, I think you should buy into my Larry Bird comment re: Jabari's defense.

Also, watching Jabari play, it makes no sense that he's not a good enough athlete to be a good defender. Oden over Durrant! If Jabari is not Bird, he is Durrant. Time to buy in! Unless the Jazz don't get him, of course. Then he'll probably been a poor defender never nearing a title. Nobody would want Carmelo anyway.

[MarkGrace]

So, the draft is stronger after pick 3. That's good news!

Kidding! But seriously, I think you should buy into my Larry Bird comment re: Jabari's defense.

Also, watching Jabari play, it makes no sense that he's not a good enough athlete to be a good defender. Oden over Durrant! If Jabari is not Bird, he is Durrant. Time to buy in! Unless the Jazz don't get him, of course. Then he'll probably been a poor defender never nearing a title. Nobody would want Carmelo anyway.

Watching him it's pretty readily apparent that he doesn't have the footspeed to be good on that end.

[Jacob]

Watching him it's pretty readily apparent that he doesn't have the footspeed to be good on that end.

Larry Bird! Footspeed don't matter when you are Larry Bird or Kevin Durrant or Jabari Parker (it would be nice if Parker were averaging 12 rebounds/game; no I don't really think he is Larry Bird).



Of course I'm joking (even though you could have said those things about Bird and Durrant). Just promise me all this negativity will go away when the Jazz draft him.

[cougjunkie]

Larry Millers Trust; ticket sales; advertising receipts; TV revenues; Brooklyn's luxury tax, adn on and on. Really, I don't understand the question. The Jazz are way under the salary cap for the next 2 years. But I was only mentioning guys who the Jazz have had in the past at cheap $$. Also, $6m is the mid-level exception. IOW, there is plenty of money to sign or trade for a guy as good as or better than Wes Matthews over the next couple years.

Way under the cap now. Your projection is 2 years from now.

Hayward is working on earning something close to a max deal. (conservatively lets say $12 per)

Favors new deal kicks in. $13 per

Kanter will be up for a new deal. (qualifying offer starts at 7, say he gives the Jazz a discount and takes a Splitter deal at $9 per)

Burks will be up for a new contract. $6?

Burke will be in his third year at $3 per

A top 3 pick is slotted to make about $5 in year 2.

Additional lottery pick (maybe 7-12 range) will make 2.5

Now you are at $46.5 million (conservatively) and that is without Rudy Gobert, Jeremy Evans, or any of these defensive stoppers that seem to be out there. You have $12 million to spend and you have 7-8 players to sign.

Spend $6 on Wes Mathews like you said, Gobert for $2. Evans walks. You have now spent $54.5 million of your $58 million cap and still have at least 5 roster spots open and save money to sign Burke the following year to a long term deal, as well as keep flexibility as your lottery picks salaries increase each year.

[smokymountainrain]

Larry Bird! Footspeed don't matter when you are Larry Bird or Kevin Durrant or Jabari Parker (it would be nice if Parker were averaging 12 rebounds/game; no I don't really think he is Larry Birdn).

Just so we don't get too carried away, Larry Bird was a slow white guy wasn't the greatest defender, but he averaged 33 and 13 as a freshman in college. Parker has been good (although tapering off lately), but 19 and 6 isn't going to cut the mustard when comparing him with Legend.

[MarkGrace]

Larry Bird! Footspeed don't matter when you are Larry Bird or Kevin Durrant or Jabari Parker (it would be nice if Parker were averaging 12 rebounds/game; no I don't really think he is Larry Bird).



Of course I'm joking (even though you could have said those things about Bird and Durrant). Just promise me all this negativity will go away when the Jazz draft him.

Well Bird wasn't a very good defender at all, but I'd take him. Durant has better footspeed than either Bird or Jabari and has those great arms for defense. I'd take him as well. I'd also take Jabari, which I think I said in the first post. I just worry that the team's defensive upside would be good enough. Obviously you could play with pieces around them and change coaches and schemes, but that group of 6 doesn't get me very excited just on their own defensive potential. Could potentially be a hell of an offensive squad, however.

[Jacob]

Way under the cap now. Your projection is 2 years from now.

Hayward is working on earning something close to a max deal. (conservatively lets say $12 per)

Favors new deal kicks in. $13 per

Kanter will be up for a new deal. (qualifying offer starts at 7, say he gives the Jazz a discount and takes a Splitter deal at $9 per)

Burks will be up for a new contract. $6?

Burke will be in his third year at $3 per

A top 3 pick is slotted to make about $5 in year 2.

Additional lottery pick (maybe 7-12 range) will make 2.5

Now you are at $46.5 million (conservatively) and that is without Rudy Gobert, Jeremy Evans, or any of these defensive stoppers that seem to be out there. You have $12 million to spend and you have 7-8 players to sign.

Spend $6 on Wes Mathews like you said, Gobert for $2. Evans walks. You have now spent $54.5 million of your $58 million cap and still have at least 5 roster spots open and save money to sign Burke the following year to a long term deal, as well as keep flexibility as your lottery picks salaries increase each year.

That's a lot of projecting. Things change and the Jazz aren't locked into anything. There are 2 years to sign players and trade players and refuse to re-sign players. Not to mention that the NBA is negotiating a new TV deal which will likely mean a lot more revenues and a higher cap. I'm confounded as to how you are worried about the Jazz cap situation. It's among the best in the league. The last 3 roster spots are minimum or near minimum deals. IOW, Jazz have plenty of money right now and even with your projections, would have $12M or more to sign 3-4 guys under the cap. And by year 2 or 3, the jazz will be willing to go above the cap, maybe even above the tax threshold if they are really competitive.

[cougjunkie]

That's a lot of projecting. Things change and the Jazz aren't locked into anything. There are 2 years to sign players and trade players and refuse to re-sign players. Not to mention that the NBA is negotiating a new TV deal which will likely mean a lot more revenues and a higher cap. I'm confounded as to how you are worried about the Jazz cap situation. It's among the best in the league. The last 3 roster spots are minimum or near minimum deals. IOW, Jazz have plenty of money right now and even with your projections, would have $12M or more to sign 3-4 guys under the cap. And by year 2 or 3, the jazz will be willing to go above the cap, maybe even above the tax threshold if they are really competitive.