"You Gotta Love It Baby" Official Jazz thread

[scottie]

I'm not in love with kanter at 3, but right now I can't get myself to love anyone at 3. Still pissed off at harrison barnes.

If Barnes had declared this year, what would the top 3 ranking have been?: 1. Irving 2. Barnes 3. Williams?

[Sizzle]

If Barnes had declared this year, what would the top 3 ranking have been?: 1. Irving 2. Barnes 3. Williams?

I think Barnes ends up going #1 overall and Cleveland plans on getting Knight at 4.

[CardiacCoug]

Insider article says that the Bulls need to dump Boozer.

[ame="http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=haberstroh_tom&id=6586559"]2011 NBA Playoffs: How the Miami Heat, Chicago Bulls and Oklahoma City Thunder can return to the conference finals next season - ESPN[/ame]

3. Dupe someone into trading for Boozer
The Bulls are in a tough position when it comes to Boozer. On one hand, they need offense. On the other, Boozer is so porous defensively that they can't depend on him down the stretch.

The numbers are staggering. The Bulls were better off this season with Boozer on the bench, according to plus-minus data from basketballvalue.com (minus-1.8 net rating). The Utah Jazz were better off in 2009-10 with Boozer on the bench (minus-2.0 net rating). Same thing in 2008-09: The Jazz were better off with Boozer riding pine (minus-6.6 net rating). That's three years running in which Boozer's defensive liabilities outsized his offensive exploits.

So what do they do? Well, they could use him to net a legitimate shooting guard, but this is the second postseason in a row in which he's floundered underneath the bright lights of the playoffs. He can't hide anymore. The Bulls may be better off lighting $60 million on fire than playing him 30 minutes a night into his 30s.

[Donuthole]

I, for one, am shocked.

[Jacob]

The only reason you pick him is because you think he's the best player on the board, period. .

Assuming there's no clear "best player available," which there probably isn't, and assuming the Jazz have players put in groups of the "5 best players available" or whatever the number is, all I'm saying is that you have to pick Jimmer first out of that group if he's going to pay for his own salary in jersey sales. That's all I'm saying.

But I think at 12, he'll probably be the pick with the least risk overall as a basketball player anyway.

[MarkGrace]

Assuming there's no clear "best player available," which there probably isn't, and assuming the Jazz have players put in groups of the "5 best players available" or whatever the number is, all I'm saying is that you have to pick Jimmer first out of that group if he's going to pay for his own salary in jersey sales. That's all I'm saying.

But I think at 12, he'll probably be the pick with the least risk overall as a basketball player anyway.

If what KOC says is correct, they don't group players. They have players listed out individually in order, then take the best remaining player left on their board when they pick. Of course he says that, but who knows if it plays out in practice. If you hypothetically pick at 5 and 7, and the best player on your board at each pick is a PG, would you go PG both times? I know he would say yes, but I wonder if it really plays out that way?

Anyway, to the extent players are ordered individually, I hope they take whoever is at the top of that list. If it's Jimmer, then it's Jimmer. If it's some other player and Jimmer is lower, and both guys are still available, I hope jersey sales isn't a factor. I tend to think like Jr. on this one. Winning puts people in seats long-term, not a novelty. If you can get the player that you feel puts you in the best position to win and has a novelty factor...terrific. But I'd hate to see them compromise the former for the latter even a little bit.

[cougjunkie]

Insider article says that the Bulls need to dump Boozer.

2011 NBA Playoffs: How the Miami Heat, Chicago Bulls and Oklahoma City Thunder can return to the conference finals next season - ESPN

How did the jazz do this year without boozer?

[Jacob]

How did the jazz do this year without boozer?

About the same as they would have with Boozer.

[Jacob]

If what KOC says is correct, they don't group players. They have players listed out individually in order, then take the best remaining player left on their board when they pick. Of course he says that, but who knows if it plays out in practice. If you hypothetically pick at 5 and 7, and the best player on your board at each pick is a PG, would you go PG both times? I know he would say yes, but I wonder if it really plays out that way?

Anyway, to the extent players are ordered individually, I hope they take whoever is at the top of that list. If it's Jimmer, then it's Jimmer. If it's some other player and Jimmer is lower, and both guys are still available, I hope jersey sales isn't a factor. I tend to think like Jr. on this one. Winning puts people in seats long-term, not a novelty. If you can get the player that you feel puts you in the best position to win and has a novelty factor...terrific. But I'd hate to see them compromise the former for the latter even a little bit.

Maybe they do not group them. Chad Ford says many teams do group them after the top tier or 2. Then you have a group and you could pick the position you want out of that group/tier. But if you are down to the last player in that group/tier, you always pick that player regardless of the position before you move on to the next tier.

That line of thinking makes a lot of sense to me because your chances of getting an impact player after the top tier is so small. And the Jazz (and about every team's) draft history in the mid 1st round only proves that GMs are not good at selecting individual players based on a pure ranking. So I would be skeptical if they thought that their #15 is clearly better than their #14, for example. So group them together.

The Jazz probably do do it as they say, and don't group. I've no reason to doubt what they say. But I think the other philosophy makes more sense. So....Jimmer! Unless you select Knight with the first pick.

[smokymountainrain]

I'd like to come away from this draft with Biyombo and either Jimmer or Brooks, (just swing for the fences on offense and defense) but there are few in the top 15 or so I wouldn't be okay with the Jazz getting. I don't like Derrick Williams or Brandon Knight as high as #3, but I don't necessarily dislike either of them as prospects in the top 12.

Motiejunas probably worries me the most, but his highlights might be among the most impressive of any of the draft prospects (yes, highlights can make Scalabrine look like Bird, I know). I don't like Kemba much, but that might just be due to the rivalry with Jimmer - part of me actually thinks he has a chance to be a very effective NBA player combining incredible quickness with shooting/scoring ability that is fairly rare among small PGs.

[MarkGrace]

I'd like to come away from this draft with Biyombo and either Jimmer or Brooks, (just swing for the fences on offense and defense) but there are few in the top 15 or so I wouldn't be okay with the Jazz getting. I don't like Derrick Williams or Brandon Knight as high as #3, but I don't necessarily dislike either of them as prospects in the top 12.

Biyombo seems like even more of unknown than Kanter to me.

Motiejunas probably worries me the most, but his highlights might be among the most impressive of any of the draft prospects (yes, highlights can make Scalabrine look like Bird, I know).

There may be a good chance he's there at 12. Nbadraft projects 11, draftexpress 12, and Ford 21. I swear at some point was considered a top 5, no?

[smokymountainrain]

Biyombo seems like even more of unknown than Kanter to me.

I agree - he's at least as much of an unknown as Kanter. My thing with Biyombo is his upside. He could very easily be a bust, but if he works out, he could be an incredible imact player on defense. I guess I'm more willing to deal with the risk because I think the reward is potentially greater with him.

There may be a good chance he's there at 12. Nbadraft projects 11, draftexpress 12, and Ford 21. I swear at some point was considered a top 5, no?

Yes - I thought he may have even been talked about #1 overall at one point. Looking at his highlights, I can see why. But, IIRC, his production just isn't there lately.

[Jacob]

I agree - he's at least as much of an unknown as Kanter. My thing with Biyombo is his upside. He could very easily be a bust, but if he works out, he could be an incredible imact player on defense. I guess I'm more willing to deal with the risk because I think the reward is potentially greater with him.

Biyombo has been playing in the highest euro league for a year and leads it in blocks, and it's not close. How is he as big of an unknown as Kanter?

[smokymountainrain]

Biyombo has been playing in the highest euro league for a year and leads it in blocks, and it's not close. How is he as big of an unknown as Kanter?

Perhaps that's the reason I'm so intrigued with him - because he has done it at that level for the past year. And you make make a good point. Maybe he is more of a known commodity.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

Biyombo has been playing in the highest euro league for a year and leads it in blocks, and it's not close. How is he as big of an unknown as Kanter?

And even if he hadn't done that, he did exactly what Kanter has proven to this point by coming over to Portland and killing it in that game.

Some questions about Biyombo's true age that don't cloud Kanter's case for being a high pick.