Impeaching Trump: Make America Sane Again

[imanihonjin]

Hey everyone in Congress, can we impeach him now? Please?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-d...er-11568993176

Do you have any interest in actually, you know, seeing if there is any truth the latest allegations?

Not really, no.

That was obviously TIC because you were playing whataboutism. Of course I want evidence. But if you're still going to be banging the Biden drum, come back when you have as much evidence for that scandal as there seems to be mounting with the Trump one.

Please point out the whataboutism that, apparently, caused your TIC moment.

[falafel]

I realize I piss people like you off. Trump is pretty bad, but I'll try to post less. How about that? But go read PAC's response if you really care about a reasoned discucussion about it and if it's not just you responding to me because you think I'm annoying. I'm done.

Oh boy. You don't piss me off, and nobody is asking you to post less (I do with funk would post less, but my efforts there have been in vain).

I have read PAC's post, and I agree with most of it. I certainly agree that Biden's actions (whatever they are) do not excuse or lessen Trump's actions. I think you will find that I haven't tried to excuse Trump's actions. I am interested in the connection between what Trump did and what Biden apparently did. And I'm always interested in the sensationalist responses to Trumps actions and the attempts to paint every thing he's ever done as unprecedented and illegal. I find much of it politically motivated and damaging to our political system.

[cowboy]

Oh boy. You don't piss me off, and nobody is asking you to post less (I do with funk would post less, but my efforts there have been in vain).

I have read PAC's post, and I agree with most of it. I certainly agree that Biden's actions (whatever they are) do not excuse or lessen Trump's actions. I think you will find that I haven't tried to excuse Trump's actions. I am interested in the connection between what Trump did and what Biden apparently did. And I'm always interested in the sensationalist responses to Trumps actions and the attempts to paint every thing he's ever done as unprecedented and illegal. I find much of it politically motivated and damaging to our political system.

Ditto to everything you said. I would also like to know if Biden is dirty, even though it is a separate issue. Also, what should a president do if he believes a Senator is breaking the law as Biden is alleged to have don and the DOJ won't investigate? I'm not saying that's what happened - just asking a hypothetical that this situation made me consider.

[Jeff Lebowski]

It isn't just the left, unless one wants to include Mitt, Jonah Goldberg, the Wall Street Journal, and other conservative voices in that category.

I've mocked Trump's Multiplicity sons, Uday and Qsay, in the past so I have no problem with anyone pointing out the ethical, moral and personal failings of Hunter Biden. But once that's out of the way, there's nothing much left behind Trump's defense.

The prosecutor Biden (and countless others) sought to have removed had been condemned by pretty much everyone (the EU, the State Department, members of Congress, etc.) because he wasn't going after corruption aggressively. It was only AFTER he was removed that Ukraine began to go aggressively after Burisma (Hunter's employer).

I'm also not a Biden supporter, but even if his actions were politically motivated (and I'm still waiting for any real evidence that they were), this does not excuse Trump's wrongdoing which is plainly evident. It's laughable to think that Trump's actions were for any reason other than political gain. Without the Biden connection, Trump would not have sent Giuliani (his new Roy Cohn) to Ukraine and urged Zelensky to work with him. Trump does't care about corruption in Ukraine (or Russia, or North Korea, or the Philippines, or Egypt, or...) and wasn't/isn't doing anything about it until he saw a personal political advantage. If Biden had announced two years ago he was not going to run for the Presidency, does anyone sincerely believe Trump and Giuliani would given this a moment's thought?

What Trump did is impeachable. My preference is that impeachment this close to an election not happen, but I hope that voters recognize that Trump is amoral and bases his actions solely on personal gain.

Bingo. Well said.

[BlueK]

Oh boy. You don't piss me off, and nobody is asking you to post less (I do with funk would post less, but my efforts there have been in vain).

I have read PAC's post, and I agree with most of it. I certainly agree that Biden's actions (whatever they are) do not excuse or lessen Trump's actions. I think you will find that I haven't tried to excuse Trump's actions. I am interested in the connection between what Trump did and what Biden apparently did. And I'm always interested in the sensationalist responses to Trumps actions and the attempts to paint every thing he's ever done as unprecedented and illegal. I find much of it politically motivated and damaging to our political system.

Go read the text of the whistleblower letter to the chairmen of the Senate and House intelligence committees and come back and report. It is about the phone call but also the context around it, and describes the administration's actions following it. If Trump and his administration actually did those things it's pretty damaging to our system.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/26/polit...ine/index.html

[Commando]

Barr needs to go. He's done serious damage to the DOJ. I can't help but wonder whatever became of the counterintelligence investigation into Trump.

Yeah Trump's repeated coopting and politicizing of the DOJ has been a cold demonstration of what a truly self-absorbed, corrupt scumbag does to try to instill graft and corruption into our government that is purposely separated with checks and balances. Think of Trump's biggest foes- always folks that reject his political overtures. Guys like Comey, McCain, Mueller...

[SoCalCoug]

Hey man, that's cool....you trust a source that fact checks satire pieces.

Because there are idiots who believe the satire pieces are true. It's not rocket science.

[creekster]

Because there are idiots who believe the satire pieces are true. It's not rocket science.

Maybe next they can fact check some bugs bunny cartoons because I know some 8 year olds who take that stuff pretty seriously.

[BlueK]

Ditto to everything you said. I would also like to know if Biden is dirty, even though it is a separate issue. Also, what should a president do if he believes a Senator is breaking the law as Biden is alleged to have don and the DOJ won't investigate? I'm not saying that's what happened - just asking a hypothetical that this situation made me consider.

I'm having trouble understanding how your hypothetical fits into the current reality. Bill Barr would seem to want to be as helpful as possible. Maybe he can't do anything because there isn't enough there for him to act on.

[falafel]

Maybe next they can fact check some bugs bunny cartoons because I know some 8 year olds who take that stuff pretty seriously.

You forgot to include in your analysis whether it approaches rocket science.

[falafel]

I'm having trouble understanding how your hypothetical fits into the current reality. Bill Barr would seem to want to be as helpful as possible. Maybe he can't do anything because there isn't enough there for him to act on.

Its a hypothetical - by definition, it doesn't have to fit the facts of the current situation.

[Northwestcoug]

Please point out the whataboutism that, apparently, caused your TIC moment.

This one:

I agree with you, that asking a foreign government to investigate a political rival is bad. I do wonder, though, if you had similar outrage over allegations related to the previous administration using our own government to spy on political rivals.

As a completely unrelated topic, not bringing any new insight to the converstaion, this whataboutism is on par with Ted's level. Bravo.

[BlueK]

Its a hypothetical - by definition, it doesn't have to fit the facts of the current situation.

I have a hard time seeing how it could fit any situation, especially one where the President and AG subscribe to the unitary executive theory.

[Northwestcoug]

If impeachment fails for his Ukraine behavior, we can still do it for him being just a terrible person, right?

“Basically, that person never saw the report, never saw the call, he never saw the call — heard something and decided that he or she, or whoever the hell they saw — they’re almost a spy,” Trump said.


“I want to know who’s the person, who’s the person who gave the whistleblower the information? Because that’s close to a spy,” he continued. “You know what we used to do in the old days when we were smart? Right? The spies and treason, we used to handle it a little differently than we do now.”

[Jeff Lebowski]

Hey man, that's cool....you trust a source that fact checks satire pieces.

I think fact-checking satire pieces is probably a waste of resources, but how does that make them less credible overall? Not sure I follow your logic here.