President Trump: Making America Great Again...

[Northwestcoug]

The agent who shot her was standing in the middle of the lane when she accelerated at him. The photo is a split second before. he shot. Reports are that she clipped him as he sidestepped and shot. I can't vouch for the windshield photo, but I grabbed it from a report. The other is a screen cap I took directly from the video.
Agent.pngWindshield..png

I watched that video also. I don't think that proves anything other than the shooter was very close to the vehicle.

[Donuthole]

I watched that video also. I don't think that proves anything other than the shooter was very close to the vehicle.

In fact, from one angle it looks like the driver has already angled her vehicle away from the shooter and the vehicle is turning away from him before he ever pulls his gun out. If you have time to pull your gun out, do you have time to step one step to the right out of the path of a vehicle? I submit that you do.

[Northwestcoug]

In fact, from one angle it looks like the driver has already angled her vehicle away from the shooter and the vehicle is turning away from him before he ever pulls his gun out. If you have time to pull your gun out, do you have time to step one step to the right out of the path of a vehicle? I submit that you do.

Exactly.

There are many terrible decisions that lead to the death of this woman, not least of which a heavily armed ICE. But the shooter had a choice. He obviously had time to get out of the way.

[Shaka]

These people were hostile, they weren't where they were supposed to be, they weren't obeying direct orders, the driver parked her SUV in the middle of the road sideways, and the driver accelerated away toward a cop that was directly in her path.

In this situation, I'm giving grace to the cop.

[Northwestcoug]

These people were hostile, they weren't where they were supposed to be, they weren't obeying direct orders, the driver parked her SUV in the middle of the road sideways, and the driver accelerated away toward a cop that was directly in her path.

In this situation, I'm giving grace to the cop.

They were in their own neighborhood...

[Jeff Lebowski]

Exactly.

There are many terrible decisions that lead to the death of this woman, not least of which a heavily armed ICE. But the shooter had a choice. He obviously had time to get out of the way.

So we excuse the driver for flooring it when someone is pointing a gun at her because it is a stressful situation yada yada, but we don't seem willing to extend similar consideration to the guy in front of the car for this split-second reaction.

This reminds of the second guessing that occurs after police shootings. People on both sides carry an agenda on how to interpret the events.

[Shaka]

They were in their own neighborhood...

When there is a heavy police presence in my neighborhood, I'm sheltering in place rather than hassling the cops. Also, if they give me an order, I'm going to obey.

[Northwestcoug]

So we excuse the driver for flooring it when someone is pointing a gun at her because it is a stressful situation yada yada, but we don't seem willing to extend similar consideration to the guy in front of the car for this split-second reaction.

This reminds of the second guessing that occurs after police shootings. People on both sides carry an agenda on how to interpret the events.

Which is exactly why a militarized ICE should not be descending upon neighborhoods. Profound consequences inevitably follow when emotions are high and guns are involved.

[falafel]

The one trying to open her door wasn't the one who shot her. The one who shot her was standing in front of the vehicle when she accelerated. It looks like she clipped him as he sidestepped and shot. I think it's dumb to try to judge intent when she's disobeying a legal order and trying to flee.

Certainly that hasn't been determined yet.

[Donuthole]

So we excuse the driver for flooring it when someone is pointing a gun at her because it is a stressful situation yada yada, but we don't seem willing to extend similar consideration to the guy in front of the car for this split-second reaction.

This reminds of the second guessing that occurs after police shootings. People on both sides carry an agenda on how to interpret the events.

One of these people is supposedly trained how to handle these situations, and the other one isn't. There is a difference in the duty of care here. Properly trained officers learn how to handle these situations. They know not to place themselves in front of a vehicle, because they know a gun won't stop a vehicle. They know when it's reasonable to pull a gun on someone and when it isn't. But these are pretend officers. They aren't trained. They think people with a gun pointed at them will respond the way they do in movies or TV.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Which is exactly why a militarized ICE should not be descending upon neighborhoods. Profound consequences inevitably follow when emotions are high and guns are involved.

I am not sure how a neighborhood would be any different than a restaurant, business district, city street, city park, etc. Seems like this kind of thing could happen anywhere. I.e., I guess I am not seeing why the neighborhood setting made this more dangerous. Seems like they generate some level of chaos everywhere.

[falafel]

Who gets to decide what necessitates deadly force? My view is if you are accelerating at a cop with your SUV/deadly weapon, he's justified in taking action.

This is a sad situation, compounded by the presence of disruptive individuals who shouldn't be there. It didn't help that this lady decided it would be a good idea to park her SUV sideways in the street.

A court of law.

As for individuals that "shouldn't be there", what is your basis for that statement? Protests are guaranteed by the First Amendment, and presumably these people live in the area. That's no requirement - we have freedom of movement in this country.

I think we should be equally skeptical of claims on both sides. Assuming the worst intentions for one side and the best intentions for the other side is just isn't productive for anybody.

[falafel]

I am not sure how a neighborhood would be any different than a restaurant, business district, city street, city park, etc. Seems like this kind of thing could happen anywhere. I.e., I guess I am not seeing why the neighborhood setting made this more dangerous. Seems like they generate some level of chaos everywhere.

This think that is NWC's point.

[The_Tick]

What do all of these people do for work? How does everyone have time to protest in the middle of the week? I don't get it.

One thing I have learned though...we are in a day and age where you have to assume that if you are at one of these protests, something like this could happen to you. There is an implied risk.

I'm not taking one side or the other here. There is a reason that I no longer go to parades or public events/places that don't have a large police force at them or metal detectors. Too many crazies.

[Jeff Lebowski]

One of these people is supposedly trained how to handle these situations, and the other one isn't. There is a difference in the duty of care here. Properly trained officers learn how to handle these situations. They know not to place themselves in front of a vehicle, because they know a gun won't stop a vehicle. They know when it's reasonable to pull a gun on someone and when it isn't. But these are pretend officers. They aren't trained. They think people with a gun pointed at them will respond the way they do in movies or TV.

Agreed. And I would hope this becomes something used in training.

Suppose the guy slipped and fell and got ran over by the car. Both sides had a deadly weapon (of sorts) and both made a split decision. Tragic results.