The 2020 Presidential Election Primary Thread

[imanihonjin]

JL, I’ve said multiple times, that I accept there are legit policy reasons for opposing student loan forgiveness. Ffs, I’m not sure exactly sold on it.

But some of these posts about people with student loan have absolutely been judgmental and full of sweeping assumptions about those with debt.

Who is judging them? I couldn't care less what choices they make.....I just don't want to have to bare the burden of their choices. They can take as many loans as they wish and buy whatever they want with their loans.....I really don't care unless it impacts me. If it impacts me, then I start to care and because I now have a financial interest, you bet I am going to start questioning some of the choices they made with their finances....I kinda get that right when I pay for stuff. I do the same thing with my kids.

[SeattleUte]

The Tocqueville paradox explains everything that's gong on in the democratic party now. Kids are better positioned to pay off their student loans than ever before. But we have this obsession with equality. But as Pinker explains, in economics, equality per se doesn't matter. The obsession comes from the basest human motives; basically, greed, jealousy, and resentment. The Tocqueville paradox explains white affluent millennials flocking to Sanders, the NYT's and academic and professional elites' infatuation with Warren. What these people need more of is exposure to societies where people truly have dire needs. This obsession with equality may be what finally destroys our prosperity.

[Jeff Lebowski]

JL, I’ve said multiple times, that I accept there are legit policy reasons for opposing student loan forgiveness. Ffs, I’m not sure exactly sold on it.

But some of these posts about people with student loan have absolutely been judgmental and full of sweeping assumptions about those with debt.

I don't think that is a fair characterization of the posts here.

[SeattleUte]

There's nothing wrong with debt as investment in future income potential. As Harari explains in Sapiens, this mechanism, and the de-stigmatization of lending, was an essential factor in Europe's rise.

I'd consider supporting debt forgiveness for kids who drop out of college plus based on income. Student debt works so well that there is no risk of moral hazard if this were the standard for forgiveness. Kids wouldn't drop out to get their debts forgiven.

[The_Tick]

There's nothing wrong with debt as investment in future income potential. As Harari explains in Sapiens, this mechanism, and the de-stigmatization of lending, was an essential factor in Europe's rise.

I'd consider supporting debt forgiveness for kids who drop out of college plus based on income. Student debt works so well that there is no risk of moral hazard if this were the standard for forgiveness. Kids wouldn't drop out to get their debts forgiven.

Drop out with 1 semester to go. Get all debt discharged. Re-enroll and pay cash for the last semester. You have a degree and no debt. Win/win.

[Pelado]

Drop out with 1 semester to go. Get all debt discharged. Re-enroll and pay cash for the last semester. You have a degree and no debt. Win/win.

Could be tiered - the more credits earned (or attended), the lower the percentage of the debt eligible for relief.

[SeattleUte]

Drop out with 1 semester to go. Get all debt discharged. Re-enroll and pay cash for the last semester. You have a degree and no debt. Win/win.

There would have to be substance over form doctrines as with the tax code.

[SeattleUte]

Young people should not be saddled with mortgages that it takes them 30 years to pay off! All homes should be free!

[Jeff Lebowski]

Young people should not be saddled with mortgages that it takes them 30 years to pay off! All homes should be free!

Credit card debt is debilitating. Let's pay off everyone's credit card debt!

[wuapinmon]

I say we print $20 trillion and pay off all the T-bills out there, paying off our own debts. Here's a visualization of $1 trillion in stacks of $100 bills. Those are double-stacked pallets.

18mkwlos06k6ejpg.jpg

https://gizmodo.com/to-conceptualize-a-trillion-dollars-we-require-compute-5168339

[falafel]

T
She told me that because her dad was a BYU professor, she got tuition either free or very VERY reduced. So she was having a visit with her dad one afternoon and he asked her what she wanted to get her degree in. "Art history", she replied. He sat there pensively for a minute or two, then picked up the phone on his desk and called the registrars office. He told them that she was withdrawing from school and wouldn't be taking classes after all.

She sat there in shock, wondering what had just happened.

He told her "as soon as you find a degree that will lead to an actual career where you can earn and income and provide for yourself and your family, let me know and I'll call them back."

She told me that it was about a month later that she decided she was going to get an English degree and become a teacher.

He sat there pensively for a minute or two, then picked up the phone on his desk and called the registrars office. He told them that she was withdrawing from school and wouldn't be taking classes after all.

She sat there in shock, wondering what had just happened.

He told her "as soon as you find a degree that will lead to an actual career where you can earn and income and provide for yourself and your family, let me know and I'll call them back."

[Sleeping in EQ]

The Tocqueville paradox explains everything that's gong on in the democratic party now. Kids are better positioned to pay off their student loans than ever before. But we have this obsession with equality. But as Pinker explains, in economics, equality per se doesn't matter. The obsession comes from the basest human motives; basically, greed, jealousy, and resentment. The Tocqueville paradox explains white affluent millennials flocking to Sanders, the NYT's and academic and professional elites' infatuation with Warren. What these people need more of is exposure to societies where people truly have dire needs. This obsession with equality may be what finally destroys our prosperity.

Yes.

[wuapinmon]

I don't think that we should forgive student loans. I do think that for-profit "universities" should not receive federal funding in any way. Their motivations and performance are predatory. I do not like private student loans. The government turns a large profit on student loans; even with defaults they are a net positive for the Treasury, to the tune of billions per year. Private student loans, if allowed, should not carry the legal protections against bankruptcy that they currently enjoy. If they want to loan money to risky borrowers, they need to build that risk into their business model.

Forgiving student loans with a broad brush is not going to happen. Programs like Peace Corps, Americorps, Public Service Loan Forgiveness, and the rest require some kind of service to receive forgiveness. But, zeroing them out is a bad idea. It only encourages people to take on more debt, administrators to raise tuition, and sets a precedent like immigration amnesty under Reagan, of people holding out hope that it'll happen again, rather than a real fix of the problem, which I've posted about on here before more than once.

[frank ryan]

Credit card debt is debilitating. Let's pay off everyone's credit card debt!

People can already declare bankruptcy

[beefytee]

People can already declare bankruptcy

So you think it would be fine if student debt could be included in bankruptcy then, right? Problem solved!