The 2020 Presidential Election Primary Thread

[imanihonjin]

Sucker.

I certainly feel that way.

[frank ryan]

I was responsible for every ounce of my undergrad and graduate education. I worked my ass off during my undergrad to not have to take out loans. I worked around 30 hours a week during the school year to stay afloat and was miserly about my finances so that I would have some sort of a nest egg built up when I went to grad school. I scrimped and saved every where I could during law school. My wife stayed at home and did odds and ends jobs to earn some to help as well. We had nothing, I should note that I still paid, out of my own pocket, for health insurance because I was responsible for my wife and child's welfare. However, we went without cable, cell phones, never ever ate out and were flat ass broke through the whole experience.

I had many many classmates who did not go without, at all. They took loans to cover their extravagant living, and, mind you, they were single and had no children to care for. Their student loan debt was far more than mine by the time we graduated. In fact, I went on to complete an additional degree and given 2 more years of going to school, many of my classmates debt still was significantly higher than mine.

What has happened since graduation? I paid off my loans just as fast as I could. I did buy a home, but my first home was modest so that I could be aggressive in paying my loans off. It took me 4 years, but we paid those suckers off (around $150k). I am still in contact with several of my classmates who, more than a decade later, have made only modest dents in their loans. Why? Because they bought nice homes and nice cars, went on super lavish vacations. My favorite is a woman who graduated the same year I did who just can't stop complaining about student loans. This same woman recently bought a porche panamera. Fully financed, mind you.

Yeah, I am not really interested in now helping these folks pay off their student loans. I don't begrudge them for how they chose to live and continue to chose to live. I would absolutely be pissed off if these folks are rewarded with a cancellation of their debts and all the while I worked my ass off and lived way way beneath their standard of living both during, after, and presently, simply because I am financially responsible and they choose not to be.

You are so amazing.

[imanihonjin]

You are so amazing.

pft. Previously, you said you don't understand the outrage. You really can't see why folks in situations similar to mine wouldn't be pissed off over these proposals?

[Goatnapper'96]

You are so amazing.

There was a day where society just considered him responsible. To quote my good friend and mentor Archie Bunker: "Those were the days!"

[Jeff Lebowski]

I was responsible for every ounce of my undergrad and graduate education. I worked my ass off during my undergrad to not have to take out loans. I worked around 30 hours a week during the school year to stay afloat and was miserly about my finances so that I would have some sort of a nest egg built up when I went to grad school. I scrimped and saved every where I could during law school. My wife stayed at home and did odds and ends jobs to earn some to help as well. We had nothing, I should note that I still paid, out of my own pocket, for health insurance because I was responsible for my wife and child's welfare. However, we went without cable, cell phones, never ever ate out and were flat ass broke through the whole experience.

I had many many classmates who did not go without, at all. They took loans to cover their extravagant living, and, mind you, they were single and had no children to care for. Their student loan debt was far more than mine by the time we graduated. In fact, I went on to complete an additional degree and given 2 more years of going to school, many of my classmates debt still was significantly higher than mine.

What has happened since graduation? I paid off my loans just as fast as I could. I did buy a home, but my first home was modest so that I could be aggressive in paying my loans off. It took me 4 years, but we paid those suckers off (around $150k). I am still in contact with several of my classmates who, more than a decade later, have made only modest dents in their loans. Why? Because they bought nice homes and nice cars, went on super lavish vacations. My favorite is a woman who graduated the same year I did who just can't stop complaining about student loans. This same woman recently bought a porche panamera. Fully financed, mind you.

Yeah, I am not really interested in now helping these folks pay off their student loans. I don't begrudge them for how they chose to live and continue to choose to live. I would absolutely be pissed off if these folks are rewarded with a cancellation of their debts and all the while I worked my ass off and lived way way beneath their standard of living both during, after, and presently, simply because I am financially responsible and they choose not to be.

Well said.

[BlueK]

the government getting out of the student loan business would likely make it harder for universities to continue to increase tuition at rates so far above inflation.

[Flystripper]

the government getting out of the student loan business would likely make it harder for universities to continue to increase tuition at rates so far above inflation.

Yeah which is one of the reasons why I think student loan debt should be able to be discharged though bankruptcy. It would probably push the government out of the market or at least change the debt markets for this paper such that student debt levels would decrease eventually impacting tuition rates.

[wapiti]

the government getting out of the student loan business would likely make it harder for universities to continue to increase tuition at rates so far above inflation.

It would lead to many universities going bankrupt.

[The_Tick]

It would lead to many universities going bankrupt.

Is that a bad thing?

[wapiti]

Is that a bad thing?

Nope.

[myboynoah]

Well said.

Agreed. Well said Japanese person.

I watch my own son and his wife work while they go to school so that they don't go into debt (like many of their fellow students). They live a frugal existence (small apartment, used car, etc.). I cannot stand the thought of some of these irresponsible people getting a pass now after taking that loan money. That loan money is like crack.

[frank ryan]

So awesome to judge mistakes other people made that you did not or had different circumstances than you did.

I get the concerns about it being poor policy to forgive student debt. But if your main objections are driven by others managing their finances like you did, you should have that shame attitude toward people who get upside down in the mortgage or can’t keep up with their medical bills, and most especially people who have too much credit card debt.

It’s easy to judge mistakes, sins or weaknesses others have that you don’t.

[falafel]

So awesome to judge mistakes other people made that you did not or had different circumstances than you did.

I get the concerns about it being poor policy to forgive student debt. But if your main objections are driven by others managing their finances like you did, you should have that shame attitude toward people who get upside down in the mortgage or can’t keep up with their medical bills, and most especially people who have too much credit card debt.

It’s easy to judge mistakes, sins or weaknesses others have that you don’t.

Aren't you also judging these people, albeit from the other side? Suggesting that they had a tougher situation, despite not knowing what they actually had to deal with. Maybe they actually were pieces of shit who wasted their time and money and now want to escape from their bad choices? If one side can't judge them all as lazy, greedy SOBs, the other side similarly can't judge them all as poverty cases victimized by the system.

[Flystripper]

Aren't you also judging these people, albeit from the other side? Suggesting that they had a tougher situation, despite not knowing what they actually had to deal with. Maybe they actually were pieces of shit who wasted their time and money and now want to escape from their bad choices? If one side can't judge them all as lazy, greedy SOBs, the other side similarly can't judge them all as poverty cases victimized by the system.

Given that both situations are representative, to whom should the system cater?

[Jeff Lebowski]

So awesome to judge mistakes other people made that you did not or had different circumstances than you did.

I get the concerns about it being poor policy to forgive student debt. But if your main objections are driven by others managing their finances like you did, you should have that shame attitude toward people who get upside down in the mortgage or can’t keep up with their medical bills, and most especially people who have too much credit card debt.

It’s easy to judge mistakes, sins or weaknesses others have that you don’t.

Yes, of course. Anyone who is not on board with forgiving student debt is a selfish, judgmental asshole.

Come on, Frank.