The 2020 Presidential Election Primary Thread

[SeattleUte]

Sure, they access it, but they can't pay for it. Hence, Cardiac's tragic observation that patients would rather have died than face a life-time of paying off the debt accrued due to the healthcare they received.

In the United States, most people with full-time jobs are insured through their employers. Also, Cardiac is part of the problem. Most health insurers are non-profit and act as gatekeepers. As it is, through preferred provider networks they pay about 30% of billed charges. But health care providers react by continually raising their rates. Also, consumers in the US don't make thoughtful cost-effective decisions about medical care. Part of this is caused by a culture of throw every available weapon at a problem, and also medical malpractice suits. Finally, private interests, which drive the US's superior innovation, are motivated by profits.

The solution is not single payor, but expanding and improving the Affordable Care Act. Private markets, state regulation, choice remain undisturbed beneath an umbrella of federal regulation. The moderate democrats are right about that.

Finally, how are the Bernie Bros going to seize ownership and control of the US's largest industry? With tanks and machine guns?

[Uncle Ted]

https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...-on-it/259153/

Developed nations with universal health care are indicated in green, all the rest are 'developing' nations:

Cool... we can give our boomers one-way tickets to Canada so Bloomberg’s death panels won’t kill them! Thanks Canada!


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[imanihonjin]

Sure, they access it, but they can't pay for it. Hence, Cardiac's tragic observation that patients would rather have died than face a life-time of paying off the debt accrued due to the healthcare they received.

Americans are accustomed to wanting the best and wanting it now. They want an MRI today, dammit, not in 2 or 3 months. So how exactly is that going to work?

[Jeff Lebowski]

I know a few canadians that come to the US for surgery because the wait is too long in canada. Canadians love to act superior but the fact of the matter is that their entire economy (and much of their culture) is dependent on the US. 3/4 of canadian exports go to the US.

[frank ryan]

I know a few canadians that come to the US for surgery because the wait is too long in canada. Canadians love to act superior but the fact of the matter is that their entire economy (and much of their culture) is dependent on the US. 3/4 of canadian exports go to the US.

I had a roommate from Canada that had surgery in US. It was paid for by the Canadian gov. They don’t want to trade healthcare situations even though it has its flaws.

[tooblue]

I know a few canadians that come to the US for surgery because the wait is too long in canada. Canadians love to act superior but the fact of the matter is that their entire economy (and much of their culture) is dependent on the US. 3/4 of canadian exports go to the US.

In my twenty-five years here, I don't know a single person who has gone to the US for surgery. Further, I don't know a single person who has had to wait too long for any procedure, including myself or my family. In contrast I home taught a woman who is now 104, and had both hips replaced in her 90's. My in-laws are in their late 80's and early 90's respectively. They don't wait for any care. There are no death panels saying let them die.

In the recent past couple of years, I have a close friend (father-in-law to my son) who had a brain aneurysm. He is alive today because of the prompt expert care he received and continues to receive.

Look, I find the fear expressed here of Sanders or any other Democract irrational. Universal health care or any other attempt to expand upon the already existent and extensive socialist programs in the US is not going to destroy US democracy. It is lunacy to believe otherwise. That's why I post; there is a healthy, happy and productive world outside US borders, in developed nations who have figured out how to make universal health care work. It isn't that hard.

[Jeff Lebowski]

In my twenty-five years here, I don't know a single person who has gone to the US for surgery. Further, I don't know a single person who has had to wait too long for any procedure, including myself or my family. In contrast I home taught a woman who is now 104, and had both hips replaced in her 90's. My in-laws are in their late 80's and 90's. They don't wait for any care. There are no death panels saying let them die.

In the recent past couple of years, I have a close friend (father-in-law to my son) who had a brain aneurysm. He is alive today because of the prompt expert care he received and continues to receive.

Look, I find the fear expressed here of Sanders or any other Democract irrational. Universal health care or any other attempt to expand upon the already existent and extensive socialist programs in the US is not going to destroy US democracy. It is lunacy to believe otherwise. That's why I post; there is a healthy, happy and productive world outside US borders, in developed nations who have figured out how to make universal health care work. It isn't that hard.

http://www.cougarstadium.com/showthr...=1#post1445913

[tooblue]

In the United States, most people with full-time jobs are insured through their employers. Also, Cardiac is part of the problem. Most health insurers are non-profit and act as gatekeepers. As it is, through preferred provider networks they pay about 30% of billed charges. But health care providers react by continually raising their rates. Also, consumers in the US don't make thoughtful cost-effective decisions about medical care. Part of this is caused by a culture of throw every available weapon at a problem, and also medical malpractice suits. Finally, private interests, which drive the US's superior innovation, are motivated by profits.

The solution is not single payor, but expanding and improving the Affordable Care Act. Private markets, state regulation, choice remain undisturbed beneath an umbrella of federal regulation. The moderate democrats are right about that.

Finally, how are the Bernie Bros going to seize ownership and control of the US's largest industry? With tanks and machine guns?

Cardiac is not part of the problem. He should get paid what he gets paid for the time he spent in school and in residency, and for the expertise with which he practices.

The problem is an irrational fear of progress that is not tied to profits. The US is on the wrong side of history on the issue of health care.

[tooblue]

http://www.cougarstadium.com/showthr...=1#post1445913

[Northwestcoug]

The article I just linked discusses how Canada is horribly polarized politically. And it's the only "developed" country where the Left has retained power.

That is demonstrably false. The US has 2 political parties. At any given national election, there are at least 4 parties vying for power in Canada. By definition, if you only have two parties each at one end of the spectrum, that is polarization. If your fight is against political polarization, then Canada and other parliamentary democracies alleviate that somewhat.

If your argument is that Canada skews left politically, and the 'center' there is left of ours, you won't find anyone who disagrees.

[CardiacCoug]

That is intolerable. But it isn't supposed to happen with since the Affordable Care Act.

That’s cute that you think all Americans have health insurance now.

[SeattleUte]

Cardiac is not part of the problem. He should get paid what he gets paid for the time he spent in school and in residency, and for the expertise with which he practices.

The problem is an irrational fear of progress that is not tied to profits. The US is on the wrong side of history on the issue of health care.

First, Cardiac's pay will decrease under single payor. There's no question about that. This "argument" you make supports my position. Cardiac should be paid what a private market will bear. Do you think Cardiac is happy with his government mandated Medicare rates? I bet not. That is what he'll get under single payor. The result will be that few with Cardiac's abilities and drive will become surgeons, and we'll have shortages and declining care.

Second, it's hilarious that you say I'm on the wrong side of history because I don't get that socialism instead of capitalism can be a means to progress. That may be the most ignorant statement ever on this board (outside the religion forum, and Canadians are in thrall of a kind of religion). The problem of our age, maybe the ultimate human problem, is that capitalism, for all its faults (inequality, oppression of labor if unchecked by regulation, need for continual growth and consumption for resources), is the ONLY means to material progress and physical well-being.

Indeed, the "democratic socialist" countries like Denmark and Canada could not make their socialism work without the wealth and growth producing capitalist elements of their systems. It's the capitalism that pays for the "democratic socialism."

[SeattleUte]

That’s cute that you think all Americans have health insurance now.

I said it's supposed to work that way. It's the way forward.

[SeattleUte]

That is demonstrably false. The US has 2 political parties. At any given national election, there are at least 4 parties vying for power in Canada. By definition, if you only have two parties each at one end of the spectrum, that is polarization. If your fight is against political polarization, then Canada and other parliamentary democracies alleviate that somewhat.

If your argument is that Canada skews left politically, and the 'center' there is left of ours, you won't find anyone who disagrees.

I don't care how many political parties Canada has. Canada is as polarized as the US for the reasons I stated. A greater proportion of its population lives in urban areas which is probably why it's remained more leftist in its government. You must know that Justin Trudeau is reviled in many quarters in Canada. Ironically, some woke hate him because of his hypocrisy supporting the oil pipeline, etc.

That article is solid. Andrew Sullivan tweeted it.

[CardiacCoug]

I said it's supposed to work that way. It's the way forward.

There needs to be some type of coverage that is universal or at least an “opt out” system. People are too irresponsible. US health care in the event of a crisis like cancer, a car accident, or a heart attack is no doubt the best in the world. (US health care obviously sucks for routine primary care and preventive care.). But the amazing care provided in the event of these crises is just too freaking expensive.