The 2020 Presidential Election Primary Thread

[SeattleUte]

Exactly. It is lunacy and outrageously unfair to people who have scraped their way to save for college and pay off debt.

Plus, we can't afford it and this is not the right fix. There's only a narrow stratum that's not repaying loans. For most people, the ones who go to four year colleges and graduate, it's a successful system. Another boondoggle for white privilege, ironically. Warren has lost her mind.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Plus, we can't afford it and this is not the right fix. There's only a narrow stratum that's not repaying loans. For most people, the ones who go to four year colleges and graduate, it's a successful system. Another boondoggle for white privilege, ironically. Warren has lost her mind.

Yeah, that is the craziest thing about the idea. Welfare for college grads.

[frank ryan]

i think college loans should be able to be discharged in bankruptcy just like any other loan. It would change the market and rates for college debt but that is OK.

Thanks, as I understand it student loans were not always protected from being discharged during bankruptcy. I think some kind of student loan reform needs to happen, at the very getting Betsy Devos out of there.

I get those who find student loan forgiveness as foolish or risky but fail to appreciate the great moral outrage. Someone's parents had the resources to pay for their education - good for them. I worked plenty hard to make it through college with zero help from anyone. Do I have student loans? Yes, only from graduate school. I worked full-time and earned a scholarship during my undergrad. If I didn't go to grad school, and wasn't carrying student loan debt I don't think I'd be outraged by the injustice of this idea.

If my parents paid for everything, I'd sure as shit hope I wouldn't be up in arms, as that didn't reflect any effort or merit on my part. Some people are really open-minded and tolerant but extremely judgmental of others when it comes to financial situations.

Also, I don't believe the roots of bankruptcy were for purely or primarily capitalist reasons, although it is economically helpful. There's humanitarian reasons behind it. But one could say it's not fair that they worked two jobs to pay off their credit card balance while their neighbor maxed their's out and declared bankruptcy.

[frank ryan]

Yeah, that is the craziest thing about the idea. Welfare for college grads.

That's not welfare. That's debt relief. Not the same thing, but whatever.

[Pelado]

That's not welfate. That's debt relief. Not the same thing, but whatever.

A similar argument could be made against the left's claims of "corporate welfare" is not really welfare, but incentives to foster economic growth.

[frank ryan]

A similar argument could be made against the left's claims of "corporate welfare" is not really welfare, but incentives to foster economic growth.

I was being literal rather than philosophical. It's not welfare like cash assitance from the government or social security disability. Bankruptcy isn't welfare, it's debt relief.

Welfare is used as a slur by the left for sure. I'm a lot less strident in how I feel about "corporate welfare," these days. Often states and municipalities need to cut deals to get jobs into their state. Certainly Utah's job market has been helped by business friendly policies (not to mention a heavily college educated population). However, sometimes certain deals governments make with companies are unwise and and giveaways and tax incentives cost a lot more than any economic benefit. And some businesses are preditory when it comes to all this. But yeah, it's common for a progressive person to knee-jerk respond to the idea of tax breaks for business development as corporate welfare, and that is often an underinformed perspective.

[All-American]

Exactly. It is lunacy and outrageously unfair to people who have scraped their way to save for college and pay off debt.

And what’s really stunning is that this is only the second craziest thing about the policy.

[All-American]

Yeah, that is the craziest thing about the idea. Welfare for college grads.

And there’s the first craziest thing.

[LiveCoug]

[SCcoug]

[Uncle Ted]

So Hunter Biden spent a lot of time on trains which made him qualified to be on Amtrak's board... I am guessing even more qualified than he was to be a board member for an Ukrainian energy company.

Embedded Tweet

Hunter, the son of an US Senator from Delaware, was unable to get in the University of Delaware... An UDel reject!



Something else we can add to his long list of impressive accomplishments.

(Hat tip to SG for pointing this out.)

[Walter Sobchak]

Buttigieg inspired by what "[Kobe] did on the field, what he meant off the field."

Basketball field. Sportsball 101.

[Pelado]

Buttigieg inspired by what "[Kobe] did on the field, what he meant off the field."

Basketball field. Sportsball 101.

You can't expect a guy from Indiana know anything about basketball.

[imanihonjin]

Thanks, as I understand it student loans were not always protected from being discharged during bankruptcy. I think some kind of student loan reform needs to happen, at the very getting Betsy Devos out of there.

I get those who find student loan forgiveness as foolish or risky but fail to appreciate the great moral outrage. Someone's parents had the resources to pay for their education - good for them. I worked plenty hard to make it through college with zero help from anyone. Do I have student loans? Yes, only from graduate school. I worked full-time and earned a scholarship during my undergrad. If I didn't go to grad school, and wasn't carrying student loan debt I don't think I'd be outraged by the injustice of this idea.

If my parents paid for everything, I'd sure as shit hope I wouldn't be up in arms, as that didn't reflect any effort or merit on my part. Some people are really open-minded and tolerant but extremely judgmental of others when it comes to financial situations.

Also, I don't believe the roots of bankruptcy were for purely or primarily capitalist reasons, although it is economically helpful. There's humanitarian reasons behind it. But one could say it's not fair that they worked two jobs to pay off their credit card balance while their neighbor maxed their's out and declared bankruptcy.

I was responsible for every ounce of my undergrad and graduate education. I worked my ass off during my undergrad to not have to take out loans. I worked around 30 hours a week during the school year to stay afloat and was miserly about my finances so that I would have some sort of a nest egg built up when I went to grad school. I scrimped and saved every where I could during law school. My wife stayed at home and did odds and ends jobs to earn some to help as well. We had nothing, I should note that I still paid, out of my own pocket, for health insurance because I was responsible for my wife and child's welfare. However, we went without cable, cell phones, never ever ate out and were flat ass broke through the whole experience.

I had many many classmates who did not go without, at all. They took loans to cover their extravagant living, and, mind you, they were single and had no children to care for. Their student loan debt was far more than mine by the time we graduated. In fact, I went on to complete an additional degree and given 2 more years of going to school, many of my classmates debt still was significantly higher than mine.

What has happened since graduation? I paid off my loans just as fast as I could. I did buy a home, but my first home was modest so that I could be aggressive in paying my loans off. It took me 4 years, but we paid those suckers off (around $150k). I am still in contact with several of my classmates who, more than a decade later, have made only modest dents in their loans. Why? Because they bought nice homes and nice cars, went on super lavish vacations. My favorite is a woman who graduated the same year I did who just can't stop complaining about student loans. This same woman recently bought a porche panamera. Fully financed, mind you.

Yeah, I am not really interested in now helping these folks pay off their student loans. I don't begrudge them for how they chose to live and continue to choose to live. I would absolutely be pissed off if these folks are rewarded with a cancellation of their debts and all the while I worked my ass off and lived way way beneath their standard of living both during, after, and presently, simply because I am financially responsible and they choose not to be.

[Pelado]

I was responsible for every ounce of my undergrad and graduate education. I worked my ass off during my undergrad to not have to take out loans. I worked around 30 hours a week during the school year to stay afloat and was miserly about my finances so that I would have some sort of a nest egg built up when I went to grad school. I scrimped and saved every where I could during law school. My wife stayed at home and did odds and ends jobs to earn some to help as well. We had nothing, I should note that I still paid, out of my own pocket, for health insurance because I was responsible for my wife and child's welfare. However, we went without cable, cell phones, never ever ate out and were flat ass broke through the whole experience.

I had many many classmates who did not go without, at all. They took loans to cover their extravagant living, and mind you they were single and had no children to care for. Their student loan debt was far more than mine by the time we graduated. In fact, I went on to complete an additional degree and given 2 more years of going to school, many of my classmates debt still was significantly higher than mine.

What has happened since graduation? I paid off my loans just as fast as I could. I did buy a home, but my first home was modest so that I could be aggressive in paying my loans off. It took me 4 years, but we paid those suckers off (around $150k). I am still in contact with several of my classmates who, more than a decade later, have made only modest dents in their loans. Why? Because they bought nice homes and nice cars, went on super lavish vacations. My favorite is a woman who graduated the same year I did who just can't stop complaining about student loans. This same woman recently bought a porche panamera. Fully financed, mind you.

Yeah, I am not really interested in now helping these folks pay off their student loans. I don't begrudge them for how they chose to live and continue to chose to live. I would absolutely be pissed off if these folks are rewarded with a cancellation of their debts and all the while I worked my ass off and lived way way beneath their standard of living both during, after, and presently, simply because I am financially responsible and they choose not to be.

Sucker.