Ukraine - somebody explain to me

[PaloAltoCougar]

I’m not too young to remember:

The GOP lifting sanctions on the oligarchs

The GOP capitulating to Trumps team on anti Russia/pro Ukraine GOP posture during one of the conventions

The GOP claiming Ukraine meddled in the 2016 election not Russia

Trump removing troops from Syria (but but Afghanistan!!!) and after removing troops from Germany

Trump praising Putin non stop, equating American actions to his

Trump threatening removal of military aid unless Ukraine supplied him with dirt on Biden and temporarily suspending aid

But, but, HUNTER BIDEN who snorted cocaine, consorted with harlots, and made billions for himself and his family!

[Thought I'd save Uncle Ted some time here]

[fusnik]

Russian TV now playing clips of Trump's recent praise of Putin.

Did you see Pompeo?

Said he has great respect for Putin and called him elegantly sophisticated.

Tucker has been pro Putin/Pro-authoritarian for years but he’s had some amazing takes since 2016 about Ukraine and Trump and Putin.

The conservative/libertarian right movements are completely bankrupt.

[originalsocal]

Did you see Pompeo?

Said he has great respect for Putin and called him elegantly sophisticated.

Tucker has been pro Putin/Pro-authoritarian for years but he’s had some amazing takes since 2016 about Ukraine and Trump and Putin.

The conservative/libertarian right movements are completely bankrupt.

They seem to be a combination of people being lead by a golden-haired, really fat shepherd. They are all sheep-like, but I bet there's a better word for it. Maybe a combination of sheep and people. Can someone help me out?

[Omaha 680]

Ukraine should have held on to their nukes in the 90s. If they had known how Europe and the US would abandon them in the end I'm sure they would have. Any country depending on the west for security from China and/or Russia is screwed. Hong Kong and now Ukraine. Baltics up next for Russia. Taiwan next for China. It's all so depressing.

[Bo Diddley]

This is for Bo

Have there been any rumors on activating Reserves/NG?

I wouldn't be surprised to find that there are some Europe rotations for a unit or two, but I'm really not hearing any chatter right now. It's too late to do anything militarily anyway--at least for Ukraine.

I just feel numb watching this unfold. Broken promises. Look the other way. Watch Russia take back (ala USSR) Ukraine piece by piece.

[Bo Diddley]

Ukraine should have held on to their nukes in the 90s. If they had known how Europe and the US would abandon them in the end I'm sure they would have. Any country depending on the west for security from China and/or Russia is screwed. Hong Kong and now Ukraine. Baltics up next for Russia. Taiwan next for China. It's all so depressing.

The Baltics are part of NATO, so I think that's a different story. But Taiwan should absolutely be worried.

[Moliere]

The Baltics are part of NATO, so I think that's a different story. But Taiwan should absolutely be worried.

Yeah, if he touches the baltics then it’s going to get ugly. There’s a reason he’s going after the Ukraine since it’s not in NATO and also has been trending democratic for the last decade. He’s trying to capture what he can before it slips away forever.

My biggest fear here is how china will play this. If they buddy up to Russia, which it looks like they are (at least behind closed doors) then the influence of the west may not win out. I don’t think the west will lose but we could end up back in a Cold War scenario. China has been playing the long game here and doing it smartly with their economies of scale. We are so intertwined with them that we can’t just sanction them as we risk economic collapse of both countries if that happens.

[fusnik]

Ukraine should have held on to their nukes in the 90s. If they had known how Europe and the US would abandon them in the end I'm sure they would have. Any country depending on the west for security from China and/or Russia is screwed. Hong Kong and now Ukraine. Baltics up next for Russia. Taiwan next for China. It's all so depressing.

These takes are weird. Based on the language you used, you are ok with military conflict against Russia/China?

The West should never have allowed the Russian oligarchs to launder money through RE, NBA teams and Soccer clubs. Should have passed TPP years ago and we should have spent the last 5 years enriching Canada and Mexico. Should have walked away from the IOC and FIFA. Climate change legislation should have been centered around military and humanitarian initiatives that would weaken the Saudis and the Russians. And we should have double downed on our relationships with France, Germany and England.

Instead we created AOC and Boebert and Trump and allowed the German government to be quasi taken over by Russian oil interests and watched while Russia hacked the Brits out of the EU and watched as Russia killed dissidents and journalists and give Tucker Carlson the most important platform on cable news.

[falafel]

These takes are weird. Based on the language you used, you are ok with military conflict against Russia/China?

The West should never have allowed the Russian oligarchs to launder money through RE, NBA teams and Soccer clubs. Should have passed TPP years ago and we should have spent the last 5 years enriching Canada and Mexico. Should have walked away from the IOC and FIFA. Climate change legislation should have been centered around military and humanitarian initiatives that would weaken the Saudis and the Russians. And we should have double downed on our relationships with France, Germany and England.

Instead we created AOC and Boebert and Trump and allowed the German government to be quasi taken over by Russian oil interests and watched while Russia hacked the Brits out of the EU and watched as Russia killed dissidents and journalists and give Tucker Carlson the most important platform on cable news.

Talk about weird takes.

[Omaha 680]

These takes are weird. Based on the language you used, you are ok with military conflict against Russia/China?

The West should never have allowed the Russian oligarchs to launder money through RE, NBA teams and Soccer clubs. Should have passed TPP years ago and we should have spent the last 5 years enriching Canada and Mexico. Should have walked away from the IOC and FIFA. Climate change legislation should have been centered around military and humanitarian initiatives that would weaken the Saudis and the Russians. And we should have double downed on our relationships with France, Germany and England.

Instead we created AOC and Boebert and Trump and allowed the German government to be quasi taken over by Russian oil interests and watched while Russia hacked the Brits out of the EU and watched as Russia killed dissidents and journalists and give Tucker Carlson the most important platform on cable news.

I'm genuinely confused at your response. We both seem to agree that the west could not have screwed up containment of Russia and China in the last 20 years any worse than we have. Knowing what we know now, Ukraine as a government and people would absolutely be in a more secure position if they had just held on to their nukes instead of giving them up for what turns out to be false guarantees of security from the west. Recognizing that fact does not mean I am "ok" with military conflict against Russia/China.

[falafel]

I'm genuinely confused at your response. We both seem to agree that the west could not have screwed up containment of Russia and China in the last 20 years any worse than we have. Knowing what we know now, Ukraine as a government and people would absolutely be in a more secure position if they had just held on to their nukes instead of giving them up for what turns out to be false guarantees of security from the west. Recognizing that fact does not mean I am "ok" with military conflict against Russia/China.

But what did you do to prevent Tucker Carlson from gaining the most important platform on cable news?

[fusnik]

I'm genuinely confused at your response. We both seem to agree that the west could not have screwed up containment of Russia and China in the last 20 years any worse than we have. Knowing what we know now, Ukraine as a government and people would absolutely be in a more secure position if they had just held on to their nukes instead of giving them up for what turns out to be false guarantees of security from the west. Recognizing that fact does not mean I am "ok" with military conflict against Russia/China.

You are the one posting you are depressed and concerned about anybody that needs protection from China/Russia which equates to almost every country in the world not named Afghanistan. It’s weird these hot takes where folks straddle this line between calling for war and shit posting current deterrents.

My point is that their denuclearization didn’t cause this, 30 years of bad foreign US policy married with the troll farm conservative movement of the last 15 years led us to this point. And it’s not just here in America social media has been the accelerant that just might destroy the modern world.

[Green Monstah]

So last week, this was a game of chicken re: Ukraine’s pending NATO membership. Anyone have an informed opinion on Putin’ end game?

[Omaha 680]

You are the one posting you are depressed and concerned about anybody that needs protection from China/Russia which equates to almost every country in the world not named Afghanistan. It’s weird these hot takes where folks straddle this line between calling for war and shit posting current deterrents.

My point is that their denuclearization didn’t cause this, 30 years of bad foreign US policy married with the troll farm conservative movement of the last 15 years led us to this point. And it’s not just here in America social media has been the accelerant that just might destroy the modern world.

Omg I give up.

[smokymountainrain]

So last week, this was a game of chicken re: Ukraine’s pending NATO membership. Anyone have an informed opinion on Putin’ end game?

simplest explanation i've seen is that putin wants the the former russian empire, at the very least he wants the u.s.s.r back together.