Ukraine - somebody explain to me

[myboynoah]

This is just dumb. I hate Trump and think he is the biggest threat to our country right now, but there is a lot of space still in between these two. This type of talk is freshman in college stuff.

Really? The only space between the two is that Trump never had the kind of control Putin has, and Trump is a very sad boy about that.

That's just common sense stuff.

[Uncle Ted]

Putin's speech yesterday laid it out pretty clearly -- one way or another he plans to take over Ukraine, but not just that. He wants to return to how it was before the fall of the Soviet Union, even by war if he can get away with it. The fact that Americans like Tucker Carlson and many Republicans side with that is digusting.

Russia is not a threat. The great Obama said so... You are living in the 1980's, man.

The ’80s Got Their Foreign Policy Back

Romney was right about Putin in 2012, as Biden is learning the hard way.

President Obama used the stage of a presidential debate to mock Mr. Romney. “Governor Romney, I’m glad that you recognize that al Qaeda’s a threat because a few months ago when you were asked, what’s the biggest geopolitical threat facing America, you said Russia,” Mr. Obama said. “And the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because, you know, the Cold War’s been over for 20 years.”

The media mostly chortled and said how right Mr. Obama was. In April 2012 Joe Biden used a similar attack line in a speech. “When we came to office, President Obama reset our relationship with Russia. . . . But just a month ago, Governor Romney called and here again I quote, ‘without question our number one geopolitical foe’ is Russia. As my brother would say, go figure,” the then Vice President said. “Look, I think it’s fair to say when it comes to Russia, based on only what we know he’s said so far, Governor Romney is mired in a Cold War mindset.”

In 2012 Mr. Putin had already invaded Georgia and was walking away from the Nunn-Lugar nuclear arms-control process. Russia was also opposing U.S. interests around the world. Two years later, in 2014, Mr. Putin invaded Crimea, his proxies grabbed eastern Ukraine, and in 2015 he intervened in Syria to rescue dictator Bashar Assad.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-80s-got-their-foreign-policy-back-mitt-romney-barack-obama-2012-presidential-debate-russia-putin-biden-11645565887

[BlueK]

The only space between Putin and Trump is that Putin has the means to get away with the dark shit he wants. If you're suggesting that Trump is morally superior to Putin then you're the one talking freshman college shit. Putin is evil, but I'd let him babysit my grandkids well before I'd let Trump.

Funny, but you're right.

[USUC]

Your hypotheticals are good and all but Trump hasn't ordered the assassinations of political foes and journalists. Trump hasn't invaded and occupied another country's sovereign territory. Trump was booted out of office and wasn't even close to successfully becoming a dictator. In the real world there are significant differences. It's dumb to compare someone who hasn't actually done the evil things that the other guy actually has. You guys can have a nuanced view of this. It doesn't mean you like Trump. It just means you have the ability to critically think.

[BlueK]

Russia is not a threat. The great Obama said so... You are living in the 1980's, man.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-80s-got-their-foreign-policy-back-mitt-romney-barack-obama-2012-presidential-debate-russia-putin-biden-11645565887

LOL. You're freaking clueless if you think I care about Obama.

[BlueK]

Your hypotheticals are good and all but Trump hasn't ordered the assassinations of political foes and journalists. Trump hasn't invaded and occupied another country's sovereign territory. Trump was booted out of office and wasn't even close to successfully becoming a dictator. In the real world there are significant differences. It's dumb to compare someone who hasn't actually done the evil things that the other guy actually has. You guys can have a nuanced view of this. It doesn't mean you like Trump. It just means you have the ability to critically think.

Trump just the other day suggested that Hillary maybe deserved to be executed.

Google it. I would post some links here but I'm on my phone and it's not letting me.

Trump admires the likes of Putin, Xi Jingping, and Kim Jung Un precisely because they do terrible things he wouldn't be able to get away with. That's pretty bad on its own.

[Non Sequitur]

Your hypotheticals are good and all but Trump hasn't ordered the assassinations of political foes and journalists. Trump hasn't invaded and occupied another country's sovereign territory. Trump was booted out of office and wasn't even close to successfully becoming a dictator. In the real world there are significant differences. It's dumb to compare someone who hasn't actually done the evil things that the other guy actually has. You guys can have a nuanced view of this. It doesn't mean you like Trump. It just means you have the ability to critically think.

Is there any doubt that Trump would order assassinations of political foes and journalists if he could do it with impunity? Of course not. The fact that Trump fell short in his attempts to emulate Vladimir Putin, does not mitigate the danger, especially when a large portion of the country is clamoring for him to have another at bat. Putin is evil, but Trump is more dangerous, because Putin doesn't have the potential to destroy American democracy. If I'm in a locked room with Trump and Putin and one in the chamber, I'm not even looking at Putin.

[USUC]

Putin is evil, but Trump is more dangerous, because Putin doesn't have the potential to destroy American democracy. If I'm in a locked room with Trump and Putin and one in the chamber, I'm not even looking at Putin.

[myboynoah]

I know.

Line them up and shoot both with one bullet.

[Uncle Ted]

LOL. You're freaking clueless if you think I care about Obama.

Yeah, your are right... Obama was a weak president too:

Embedded Tweet

And let's not forget Russia invaded Georgia during the Bush Jr days. What a bunch of wussies.

[BlueK]

Yeah, your are right... Obama was a weak president too:

Embedded Tweet

And let's not forget Russia invaded Georgia during the Bush Jr days. What a bunch of wussies.

I agree that Obama was a weak president. But you are stuck in binary political tribalism land. Putin is not a good guy and neither is Trump. Both are enemies to the libertarian values you used to say you cared about.

[Uncle Ted]

I agree that Obama was a weak president. But you are stuck in binary political tribalism land. Putin is not a good guy and neither is Trump. Both are enemies to the libertarian values you used to say you cared about.

If you actually had some libertarian values then you would have been for getting the heck out of Europe and NATO back when Drumpf proposed it...

PRESS RELEASE: Libertarian Party calls on US to cut ties with NATO

[BlueK]

If you actually had some libertarian values then you would have been for getting the heck out of Europe and NATO back when Drumpf proposed it...

PRESS RELEASE: Libertarian Party calls on US to cut ties with NATO

I break from the actual LP on this. I believe in forming alliances with countries that value civil liberties. So yeah, I don't totally agree with the party on that.

[Commando]

I think if the GOP gets back into power, Mexico should take back Texas, AZ, New Mexico, and California, since they apparently have no problem with this type of thing.

[originalsocal]

I think if the GOP gets back into power, Mexico should take back Texas, AZ, New Mexico, and California, since they apparently have no problem with this type of thing.

While we are at it...perhaps we should just let Great Britain claim us. Seems legit.