Missing POW from Hailey Idaho

[grapevine]

Now one of the soldiers injured looking for him died. Could of been residual effects when h looked for Bergdahl. Shot in head and I don,t think he walked since then.

[Bo Diddley]

As people have been questioning the Griner swap, I'm reminded of the Bowe Bergdahl swap. I will always err on the side of getting our people back.

I found this podcast that sounds interesting:

https://www.stripes.com/multimedia/podcasts/military_matters/2022-07-21/bowe-bergdahl-military-matters-6712762.html

“The reality that really needs to be known and that should rise over time is that the top commanders in [the] U.S. military in the summer of 2009 — Stan McChrystal, Mike Flynn, David Petraeus — knew that Bowe Bergdahl had been smuggled over the border into Pakistan within three to four days of his disappearance,” Ames said. “And then they sent thousands of Americans on so-called searches to go find a guy who they knew was already gone. And that reality remains buried. And it is true. It has been sourced through dozens of sources in the military and the intelligence community.”

[smokymountainrain]

As people have been questioning the Griner swap, I'm reminded of the Bowe Bergdahl swap. I will always err on the side of getting our people back.

I found this podcast that sounds interesting:

https://www.stripes.com/multimedia/p...s-6712762.html

yup, imo, it sorta falls under the same principle as the idea that it's better for 10 guilty men to go free than 1 innocent man be sentenced to prison. and with that i am not implying griner is 100% innocent, but i think it still applies in the sense that she likely didn't get a fair trial, the punishment didn't fit the crime and we needed to get her home.

absolutely err on the side of getting our people home.

[BigFatMeanie]

As people have been questioning the Griner swap, I'm reminded of the Bowe Bergdahl swap. I will always err on the side of getting our people back.

I found this podcast that sounds interesting:

https://www.stripes.com/multimedia/podcasts/military_matters/2022-07-21/bowe-bergdahl-military-matters-6712762.html

yup, imo, it sorta falls under the same principle as the idea that it's better for 10 guilty men to go free than 1 innocent man be sentenced to prison. and with that i am not implying griner is 100% innocent, but i think it still applies in the sense that she likely didn't get a fair trial, the punishment didn't fit the crime and we needed to get her home.

absolutely err on the side of getting our people home.

Sorry, I don't agree with you guys.

First of all, what is the definition of "our people"? Do you mean any American citizen? If so, there are at least 60 American citizens who are basically being held as political prisoners around the world but there are likely thousands who committed crimes and who had unfair trials by American standards and whose punishment didn't fit the crime by American standards. Or are you just talking about celebrities and military people?

Next, how do we judge when someone is really being held as a political prisoner vs. when they may just be facing a sentence in a justice system that we consider to not meet American standards?

Lastly, at what point do the ends no longer justify the means? If you're willing to trade arms dealers, drug dealers, murderers, terrorists, and all other villainy and scum to free what is a political prisoner (or just someone who we think is being treated unfairly by American standards), why not just bomb the kidnapping/extortionist state? Why not assassinate their leader? What action would you consider too morally reprehensible to free an unjustly detained American citizen?

[Jeff Lebowski]

I have mixed emotions about the trade. The problem with swaps is that you basically incentivize Russia to jail more Americans over trivial or made-up issues.

[Bo Diddley]

Sorry, I don't agree with you guys.

First of all, what is the definition of "our people"? Do you mean any American citizen? If so, there are at least 60 American citizens who are basically being held as political prisoners around the world but there are likely thousands who committed crimes and who had unfair trials by American standards and whose punishment didn't fit the crime by American standards. Or are you just talking about celebrities and military people?

Next, how do we judge when someone is really being held as a political prisoner vs. when they may just be facing a sentence in a justice system that we consider to not meet American standards?

Lastly, at what point do the ends no longer justify the means? If you're willing to trade arms dealers, drug dealers, murderers, terrorists, and all other villainy and scum to free what is a political prisoner (or just someone who we think is being treated unfairly by American standards), why not just bomb the kidnapping/extortionist state? Why not assassinate their leader? What action would you consider too morally reprehensible to free an unjustly detained American citizen?

Yes our people = American citizens--not just military people and celebrities.

The people who we vote as our leaders can make the calls as to who is a political prisoner. I don't think we have to overthink it. Obviously so cases will naturally be more clear cut than others.

Those in the know with all available information can make the call as to when it is appropriate to trade. Sometimes it will be appropriate to extract them.

There are still many political prisoners we are working to free, but will we get them all out? Nope.

[Bo Diddley]

I have mixed emotions about the trade. The problem with swaps is that you basically incentivize Russia to jail more Americans over trivial or made-up issues.

Yep. I shared this same sentiment early on. US citizens need to be on notice not to travel to Russia with Putin in power.

[beefytee]

I don’t have issues with the swap. The guy had served 14 years and another decade wasn’t likely to make much difference. If he can set up his criminal network again after 14 years he would be able to do it again after 25.

The bad taste in my mouth is the party that was claiming that Griner wasn’t getting the attention she deserved because she was a woman, black, and gay. That obviously wasn’t the case and it was clear that she got preferential treatment.

[Bo Diddley]

I don’t have issues with the swap. The guy had served 14 years and another decade wasn’t likely to make much difference. If he can set up his criminal network again after 14 years he would be able to do it again after 25.

The bad taste in my mouth is the party that was claiming that Griner wasn’t getting the attention she deserved because she was a woman, black, and gay. That obviously wasn’t the case and it was clear that she got preferential treatment.

People are going to say what they want to say and claim their political points where they can. That's all pretty much independent of what went down.

[Jeff Lebowski]

People are going to say what they want to say and claim their political points where they can. That's all pretty much independent of what went down.

You would have to be pretty cynical to think they haven't been doing everything they can to get Whalen out too.

[beefytee]

People are going to say what they want to say and claim their political points where they can. That's all pretty much independent of what went down.

Yep. I was trying to acknowledge that in my post. I think the government did the right thing.

There is also an argument to be made that she never would have gotten the sentence she did if she wasn't a celebrity/high visibility person that the Russians could use to their advantage. I think there is a good chance they just send her home to the US. So, the celebrity thing cuts both ways.

[Bo Diddley]

You would have to be pretty cynical to think they haven't been doing everything they can to get Whalen out too.

Yep. A lot of cynical people out in force on social media!

[Bo Diddley]

Yep. I was trying to acknowledge that in my post. I think the government did the right thing.

There is also an argument to be made that she never would have gotten the sentence she did if she wasn't a celebrity/high visibility person that the Russians could use to their advantage. I think there is a good chance they just send her home to the US. So, the celebrity thing cuts both ways.

Yes, this was my thought from the beginning about why Russia did what they did.

[Uncle Ted]

I have mixed emotions about the trade. The problem with swaps is that you basically incentivize Russia to jail more Americans over trivial or made-up issues.

Given Biden let this "merchant of death" arms-dealer go back to putting more guns out in the world the democrats can now STFU about gun control.

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[Bo Diddley]

As people have been questioning the Griner swap, I'm reminded of the Bowe Bergdahl swap. I will always err on the side of getting our people back.

I found this podcast that sounds interesting:

https://www.stripes.com/multimedia/podcasts/military_matters/2022-07-21/bowe-bergdahl-military-matters-6712762.html

Just listened to this podcast. I just bought the book on Audible. American Cipher.

As the J2 intelligence officer, Mike Flynn was spreading false information that Bowe was a jihadist. Now he goes around the country spreading false information about QAnon. How did we end up with someone like him in leadership of the military? I wonder how many lives were lost because of the false narratives he pushed.

Patraeus, McChrystal, and Flynn were the only people who refused interviews for the book. Dozens of sources say they were getting missions approved under the guise of search and rescue missions to go get Bergdahl, while they knew he was really over the border in Pakistan. They made hundreds of soldiers sign NDA's after missions to keep the truth under wraps, but they probably didn't really know the truth anyway. They were told they were going to find Bergdahl when the mission objective was to root out the Taliban all over the place.