A Funny Thing Happened on the Way To Jerusalem: Gaza/Israel conflict

[fusnik]

I agree that this is extraordinarily difficult.

What would you do if you were Israel? Hamas has been clear from day 1 that their objective is the complete destruction of Israel. And they were elected to power by a vote of the majority of the people in Gaza. Hamas committed an act of war by invading Israel. What is the proper response?

In my mind, the point of spending trillions of dollars on defense systems and weapons, is to make it more efficient to kill humans. Id hyper focus on the leadership of Hamas both politically and militarily. Bomb the shit out of their suspected strongholds (they should have an idea where they are at) and let the people of Gaza know that anyone who harbors those leaders will be killed as well.

Find a Palestinian willing to be a voice of reason, prop that person up.

Let Iran know anyone involved in the planning will meet the same fate.

Maybe my ignorance on military matters is shining through.

I’m not opposed to a military reaction, I get nauseous when people so easily talking about turning Gaza into a parking lot and turning off the water and power to millions of innocents.

[Goatnapper'96]

In my mind, the point of spending trillions of dollars on defense systems and weapons, is to make it more efficient to kill humans. Id hyper focus on the leadership of Hamas both politically and militarily. Bomb the shit out of their suspected strongholds (they should have an idea where they are at) and let the people of Gaza know that anyone who harbors those leaders will be killed as well.

Find a Palestinian willing to be a voice of reason, prop that person up.

Let Iran know anyone involved in the planning will meet the same fate.

Maybe my ignorance on military matters is shining through.

I’m not opposed to a military reaction, I get nauseous when people so easily talking about turning Gaza into a parking lot and turning off the water and power to millions of innocents.

I am not sure there is any way of destroying Hamas' capacity to act on its ideology that doesn't include significant destruction to the Gaza Strip.

I don't believe Israel is looking to purposefully kill civilians and non-combatants but they are not going to let concerns of collateral damage get in the way of accomplishing any legitimate tactical goal. You ask how many people are too many I wonder what percentage of Hamas (10%, 20% 66.6666667%) still being intact is acceptable.

My recommendations is to either stock up on pepto bismol or take my approach and not wade into details of the imminent ground attack. It will challenge just about anyone's constitution.

[myboynoah]

The proportionality argument ridiculous in war, especially in wars in the Mideast.

Israel wants and needs to destroy Hamas' support base, which will severely affect the groups ability to attack Israel. That means bombing Hamas leadership homes and offices, Hamas ammunition storage, Hamas training sites, Hamas recruitment facilities, Hamas banking facilities, Hamas military equipment, Hamas tunnels, and everyplace lese that Hamas operates. Israel also needs to send a message to the population of Gaza that supporting Hamas brings consequences. This is only natural. If a population supports heinous acts and the group that carries out those acts, it shouldn't complain when those on whom those acts were perpetrated respond.

Israel is being much better about pursing this campaign, warning the populace to move out of certain areas. It is also targeting Hamas facilities. A smart Gazan would relocate oneself away from those facilities. This is not like what the Russians are doing in Syria and Ukraine. Israelis are not savages.

Now, will this change peoples' minds? Maybe some, but for the most part, hell no. But that is not the primary point. The point is to cripple Hamas' ability to act. That can happen by destroying the groups physical and leadership infrastructure, and then by keeping the pressure on into the future. Israel got lax. I doubt it ever will again.

Old people in Israel, especially Holocaust survivors, should be able to live out their days and die of old age without the threat of being gunned down simply because they are Jewish or Israeli.

[Jeff Lebowski]

In my mind, the point of spending trillions of dollars on defense systems and weapons, is to make it more efficient to kill humans. Id hyper focus on the leadership of Hamas both politically and militarily. Bomb the shit out of their suspected strongholds (they should have an idea where they are at) and let the people of Gaza know that anyone who harbors those leaders will be killed as well.

Find a Palestinian willing to be a voice of reason, prop that person up.

Let Iran know anyone involved in the planning will meet the same fate.

Maybe my ignorance on military matters is shining through.

Thank you for responding.

Any Palestinian propped up by Israel will have zero influence. That has to happen organically I think.

Bombing strongholds is difficult because everything is hidden all over Gaza in urban environments. Anything you do will have collateral damage.

I am sure part of the calculus is to craft a response so devastating that any future attack of this kind will have to done knowing full well that it is suicidal.

I’m not opposed to a military reaction, I get nauseous when people so easily talking about turning Gaza into a parking lot and turning off the water and power to millions of innocents.

Agreed. Horrible situation. And this is partly why this act by Hamas is so horrific and stupid. The cost on their own people will be devastating.

[Goatnapper'96]

Agreed. Horrible situation. And this is partly why this act by Hamas is so horrific and stupid. The cost on their own people will be devastating.

Folks are getting worked up about hangliders and motorcycle militiamen heading to the border from Lebanon and Hezbollah. Do these folks understand what an unleashed Israeli Army can and will do? What is the end state here for the puppet masters?

[Omaha 680]

Agreed. Horrible situation. And this is partly why this act by Hamas is so horrific and stupid. The cost on their own people will be devastating.

Well this assumes Hamas cares at all about the innocent people in Gaza. Those people have been and always will be a bargaining chip and solving the conflict is not really the goal. Hamas wants Israel to inflict suffering on Gaza in a desperate attempt to derail the wider peace process between Israel and Saudi Arabia.

Palestinians have always been just a bargaining chip for Arab nations as well. If they really cared for the Palestinian plight, they would have pressured acceptance of any of the 2-state solutions with Israeli concessions in the early 2000s, and/or accepted more refugees over the decades.

[myboynoah]

Folks are getting worked up about hangliders and motorcycle militiamen heading to the border from Lebanon and Hezbollah. Do these folks understand what an unleashed Israeli Army can and will do? What is the end state here for the puppet masters?

To continue the ongoing struggle to reclaim Jerusalem? Could be they want to derail any moves by more Arab states to get closer to Israel. Or maybe Hezbollah Scouts are complete some merit badge requirments.

[YOhio]

One approach would be to install a Chinese-led UN Peacekeeping force. I'm *not* saying that's the correct approach, but their approach is probably the most effective at dealing with radical Islam we've seen in the past couple decades.

[Bo Diddley]

I wonder if Israel's plan is to create a humanitarian crisis severe enough to effect a relocation.

[old_gregg]

One approach would be to install a Chinese-led UN Peacekeeping force. I'm *not* saying that's the correct approach, but their approach is probably the most effective at dealing with radical Islam we've seen in the past couple decades.

not a lot of uyghur-led terrorist attacks, that's for sure

[fusnik]

I am not sure there is any way of destroying Hamas' capacity to act on its ideology that doesn't include significant destruction to the Gaza Strip.

I don't believe Israel is looking to purposefully kill civilians and non-combatants but they are not going to let concerns of collateral damage get in the way of accomplishing any legitimate tactical goal. You ask how many people are too many I wonder what percentage of Hamas (10%, 20% 66.6666667%) still being intact is acceptable.

My recommendations is to either stock up on pepto bismol or take my approach and not wade into details of the imminent ground attack. It will challenge just about anyone's constitution.

Of course they are trying to kill civilians, why else would they cut power, food and water and not allow people to flee?

[Goatnapper'96]

Of course they are trying to kill civilians, why else would they cut power, food and water and not allow people to flee?

Hamas needs those things to fight a war. By taking it away it makes it easier for Israel to defeat Hamas. From a military perspective it is the proper tactical decision to make.

People can flee into Egypt all they want-Egypt won't take them.

[YOhio]

[Green Monstah]

I watched a lot of news coverage yesterday. Atrocities beget atrocities.

What Hamas did was barbaric, but try to explain to the kid whose apartment and family were just blown up by an Israeli air strike the difference.

Little Israeli feet sticking out of a makeshift body bag. Palestinian kids covered in dust except for the trail of exposed skin created by their tears. It’s all bullshit.

[frank ryan]

One approach would be to install a Chinese-led UN Peacekeeping force. I'm *not* saying that's the correct approach, but their approach is probably the most effective at dealing with radical Islam we've seen in the past couple decades.

I imagine the Chinese also haven't had to worry about Iranian interference over their Muslim population. In fact, hypocritically, many Muslim and Arab states refused to criticize China's actions