Transgender issues and discussions

[frank ryan]

Interesting argument. Women's sports are dumb and inconsequential so people shouldn't care. Good luck with that.

I've started enjoying NCAA women's bball

[BigPiney]

Thing is this, though. The amount of attention this issue gets far outpaces its relative importance. A few, like the participants, have genuine standing to object. But as for the millions of people who never gave a thought to women's collegiate swimming before a biological male wants to participate, one can't help but suspect their passion is driven by something other than protecting women's athletics.

[All-American]

Interesting argument. Women's sports are dumb and inconsequential so people shouldn't care. Good luck with that.

Whether they should care is beside the point. The fact is they don't care.

So, color me skeptical when a massive crowds show up with pitchforks and tiki torches claiming they are out to save women's sports when they never gave a rip about women's sports until a transgender athlete showed up.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Whether they should care is beside the point. The fact is they don't care.

So, color me skeptical when a massive crowds show up with pitchforks and tiki torches claiming they are out to save women's sports when they never gave a rip about women's sports until a transgender athlete showed up.

I didn't watch too many women's sports, especially relative to men's sports. But when my daughter participated, I was there for every single game, track meet, match, etc. If you don't think parents care deeply about their daughters' participation in sports, you are crazy.

[Jeff Lebowski]

"If you suddenly care about your daughters not competing against men in sports you must be a bigot."

Goodness gracious, what an absurd argument.

[BigPiney]

I didn't watch too many women's sports, especially relative to men's sports. But when my daughter participated, I was there for every single game, track meet, match, etc. If you don't think parents care deeply about their daughters' participation in sports, you are crazy.

[All-American]

I didn't watch too many women's sports, especially relative to men's sports. But when my daughter participated, I was there for every single game, track meet, match, etc. If you don't think parents care deeply about their daughters' participation in sports, you are crazy.

I'm sure you're right. This is all driven by earnest parents and their deep caring about their daughter's participation in sports. Nothing more.

[USUC]

I genuinely don't understand why an issue with such clear moral distinctions and so unpopular still animates so many on the left.

[dabrockster]

Thing is this, though. The amount of attention this issue gets far outpaces its relative importance. A few, like the participants, have genuine standing to object. But as for the millions of people who never gave a thought to women's collegiate swimming before a biological male wants to participate, one can't help but suspect their passion is driven by something other than protecting women's athletics.

Were you not alive when Title 9 started or all the debates that took place? What we are seeing is the complete dismantle of what its true meaning was and is now being pillaged by biological males. Yes, parents of women who plays sports will protect their children and their rights. Even those who are gay who fought for title 9 are stepping up and saying, this is wrong.

Your argument is an arrogant Brush-off and rings true to my initial statement of those who support such things.. Good to know where you stand on the rights of womens and girls.

[All-American]

Were you not alive when Title 9 started or all the debates that took place? What we are seeing is the complete dismantle of what its true meaning was and is now being pillaged by biological males. Yes, parents of women who plays sports will protect their children and their rights. Even those who are gay who fought for title 9 are stepping up and saying, this is wrong.

Your argument is an arrogant Brush-off and rings true to my initial statement of those who support such things.. Good to know where you stand on the rights of womens and girls.

If you really cared about where I stand on the rights of women and girls, why don't you quote the first paragraph of my post instead of just the second?

But hey-- I'm glad we can all celebrate the newfound groundswell of sincere and genuine support for women's athletics (among Republicans, no less!).

[dabrockster]

If you really cared about where I stand on the rights of women and girls, why don't you quote the first paragraph of my post instead of just the second?

But hey-- I'm glad we can all celebrate the newfound groundswell of sincere and genuine support for women's athletics (among Republicans, no less!).

Why quote something you used as an intro to your main point..


Clearly it was not your opinion. But yes, this is a GOP thing.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Why quote something you used as an intro to your main point..


Clearly it was not your opinion. But yes, this is a GOP thing.

80% of americans are maga bigots. Who would have guessed?

[BigFatMeanie]

For those in the "This affects such a small number of people that it's obviously a manufactured culture war issue and the Republicans/conservatives/MAGA/anti-trans-side shouldn't even care about it" camp:

How do you respond when the exact same argument is turned towards you? In other words, it affects such a small number of people then why do the Democrats/progressives/non-MAGA/pro-trans-side even care about it? If it's such a non-issue why not just let the other side outlaw trans-women in woman-specific sports/spaces and be done with it?

[All-American]

For those in the "This affects such a small number of people that it's obviously a manufactured culture war issue and the Republicans/conservatives/MAGA/anti-trans-side shouldn't even care about it" camp:

How do you respond when the exact same argument is turned towards you? In other words, it affects such a small number of people then why do the Democrats/progressives/non-MAGA/pro-trans-side even care about it? If it's such a non-issue why not just let the other side outlaw trans-women in woman-specific sports/spaces and be done with it?

This question makes me think about what Governor Cox said when he vetoed HB11:

I must admit, I am not an expert on transgenderism. I struggle to understand so much of it and the science is conflicting. When in doubt however, I always try to err on the side of kindness, mercy and compassion. I also try to get proximate and I am learning so much from our transgender community. They are great kids who face enormous struggles. Here are the numbers that have most impacted my decision: 75,000, 4, 1, 86 and 56.

• 75,000 high school kids participating in high school sports in Utah.
• 4 transgender kids playing high school sports in Utah.
• 1 transgender student playing girls sports.
• 86% of trans youth reporting suicidality.
• 56% of trans youth having attempted suicide.

Four kids and only one of them playing girls sports. That’s what all of this is about. Four kids who aren’t dominating or winning trophies or taking scholarships. Four kids who are just trying to find some friends and feel like they are a part of something. Four kids trying to get through each day. Rarely has so much fear and anger been directed at so few. I don’t understand what they are going through or why they feel the way they do. But I want them to live. And all the research shows that even a little acceptance and connection can reduce suicidality significantly. For that reason, as much as any other, I have taken this action in the hope that we can continue to work together and find a better way.

https://governor.utah.gov/press/gov-...-vetoing-hb11/

[Jeff Lebowski]

This question makes me think about what Governor Cox said when he vetoed HB11:

https://governor.utah.gov/press/gov-...-vetoing-hb11/

I agree with Governor Cox's admonition to proceed cautiously and with empathy. I still do. He wrote that letter 3 years ago. Since then we have seen a trans woman who wasn't even competitive as a male, switch genders and win a women's NCAA title. You have a trans woman take a spot on a college volleyball team and be one of the best players in the league. There are some very egregious cases of biological boys dominating HS girls track in New England. It is disingenuous to imply that it is a just a few highly isolated cases and that it will remain that way. This is also why public sentiment has changed so drastically to where 79% of Americans are in agreement on this. You also need to find some newer material. Governor Cox is now strongly in support of protecting women's sports. One example:

https://governor.utah.gov/press/stat...womens-sports/

SALT LAKE CITY (Nov. 18, 2024) – Gov. Spencer J. Cox, Senate President J. Stuart Adams and House Speaker Mike Schultz have asked Utah State University to move to intervene in the case against the Mountain West Conference, filed last week in a U.S. District Court. If granted, Utah State University would join 11 women volleyball players from five universities and a coach in requesting the court to enjoin the Mountain West Conference from enforcing its transgender participation policy.

Gov. Cox, President Adams and Speaker Schultz release the following statement:

“Female athletes deserve the right to a safe playing field, fair competition and equal opportunities. By intervening, Utah will send a clear message that these rights are non-negotiable. The NCAA, Mountain West Conference and other institutions across the nation have failed to take action, thereby undermining vital protections and putting female athletes at risk. We will continue to defend our female athletes and the integrity of our athletic programs.”