2024 Presidential Election Thread

[Maximus]

Not to mention that it was under Obama and Biden that Russian aggression resulted in them taking Crimea and the eastern part of Ukraine. Hamas and Hezbollah also feel emboldened to the point of terrorist attacked that could only result in war. Biden has kept the China tariffs that Trump put in place.

Foreign policy has been a cluster under the Democrats.

Blaming Biden for hamas actions they have been planning for a decade?

Israel's leaders have been paying hamas off for years. Iran's nuclear deal has no bearing or influence on their actions

[Moliere]

Foreign policy was not worse under Biden than it was under Trump. You can ask Ukrainians who they'd prefer. Trump did everything he could while out of office to prevent the latest round of support to Ukraine.

During Trump's admin Jared Kushner fueled a standoff between Qatar and Saudi Arabia and other Gulf States without any thought of how dangerous and problematic it was.

Orban in Hungary and Erdogan in Turkey also prefer Trump. That's not because Trump did better at advancing American interests.

Trump famously called nations shithole countries. He so overtly aligned with right-wing strongmen like Bolsonaro in Brazil (who tried to stage a coup exactly like Trump and it also failed) that it has invited animus and hostility from their left-wing replacements.

Russia is publicly rooting for Trump and the Russia Duma openly cheered his victory in 16. If they thought Kamala would be weaker, they'd pull for her and so would their bots and stooges.

I didn’t say it was better under Trump. I just pointed out that Biden and Harris have failed in foreign policy. Being better than Trump is a low bar so maybe use something else as a measuring stick.

[frank ryan]

I didn’t say it was better under Trump. I just pointed out that Biden and Harris have failed in foreign policy. Being better than Trump is a low bar so maybe use something else as a measuring stick.

It's more than just being not Trump. Biden inherited Trump's destruction, and had to deal with other trouble-makers. But it's still a significant distinction because of how awful he is. It's not close. People have Trump-scandal fatigue, and to a degree that's both lazy and dangerous. His behavior becomes normalized when it is unprecedented. He mocked a politically-motivated attempted murder on Pelosi's husband. There weren't any calls for restraint from within the ranks of MAGA. That is the man he is and that is the type of caution his inner-circle shows.

I've repeatedly criticized Obama on Russia. Biden's admin has been far better on Russia than both Obama and Trump. It's not close. Additionally, if Obama had been tougher with Russia, I suspect a lot of people would criticize him for being too aggressive or confrontational as it might have meant instances of armed conflict.

If Trump gets re-elected our alliances, intelligence capabilities and soft diplomatic power will be gutted. That is a big deal and not a low bar. Let's not think it won't be worse or that our adversaries will be less prepared to exploit it or that Trump will be less reckless.

[frank ryan]

Not to mention that it was under Obama and Biden that Russian aggression resulted in them taking Crimea and the eastern part of Ukraine. Hamas and Hezbollah also feel emboldened to the point of terrorist attacked that could only result in war. Biden has kept the China tariffs that Trump put in place.

Foreign policy has been a cluster under the Democrats.

This is a bit misinformed. I could elaborate with a lot more nuance if there's interest.

Moli, Russia wasn't well-behaved with regards to Ukraine because of Trump. They aren't rooting for Trump and supporting him through various means because he is going to put him in check.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Klein notes that the never-Trumpers, who were Romney-Republicans, have become even more full-throated and ideologically pure democrats than Klein himself.

I have been thinking about this point and I agree with it. I used to really admire Adam Kinzinger due to his courage in standing up to Trump. I also liked Heath Mayo who is an anti-trumper and a leader of the "Principles First" organization. However, they have both become insufferable scolds. They are both well beyond anti-trump at this point - they are anti everything associated with republicans or conservatives. Yesterday they were mocking and lecturing people for being upset by the drag queen last supper.

[Maximus]

It wasn't the last supper

[USUC]

It wasn't the last supper

The culture wars are boring and I don't care what France does with their lame opening ceremonies, but you are being gullible if you believe it wasn't. This was the a social media post from the "Jesus figure" at the center.

20240728_102945.jpg

[Maximus]

Embedded Tweet

[USUC]

Embedded Tweet

Lol. Dionysus was included for plausible deniability. You know just as well as i do what the intention was. What is it with institutions gaslighting us on everything?

[frank ryan]

Lol. Dionysus was included for plausible deniability. You know just as well as i do what the intention was. What is it with institutions gaslighting us on everything?

Huh?

[chrisrenrut]

Lol. Dionysus was included for plausible deniability. You know just as well as i do what the intention was. What is it with institutions gaslighting us on everything?

You think the French care about plausible deniability over this?

[Jeff Lebowski]

The subsequent portrayal of the naked blue dude on the platter does not in any way, shape, or form negate the unmistakable imagery of the last supper on the table behind him. I can't imagine being so committed to the progressive culture war that one would be willing to not believe their own eyes and/or think they can gaslight people into not believing their own eyes or the actual confirmations from the participants themselves. Geez.

Not to mention the fact that one of the guys at the table literally had his nuts hanging out for the entire world to see.

[Moliere]

The subsequent portrayal of the naked blue dude on the platter does not in any way, shape, or form negate the unmistakable imagery of the last supper on the table behind him. I can't imagine being so committed to the progressive culture war that one would be willing to not believe their own eyes and/or think they can gaslight people into not believing their own eyes or the actual confirmations from the participants themselves. Geez.

Not to mention the fact that one of the guys at the table literally had his nuts hanging out for the entire world to see.

This is closest to correct. You all need to better understand the French. They'll mock anything and everything and they knew exactly what they were doing with this piece. They don't care people are offended and they weren't hiding anything, they were just using symbolism to mock the Last Supper. Even the Olympic organizers issued an apology: https://www.wsj.com/sports/olympics/...76&cx_artPos=4

Jokes on them though since the Last Supper is in Milan. It would of course be hanging in the Louvre if it weren't painted on a wall...

[Jeff Lebowski]

This is closest to correct. You all need to better understand the French. They'll mock anything and everything and they knew exactly what they were doing with this piece. They don't care people are offended and they weren't hiding anything, they were just using symbolism to mock the Last Supper. Even the Olympic organizers issued an apology: https://www.wsj.com/sports/olympics/...76&cx_artPos=4

Jokes on them though since the Last Supper is in Milan. It would of course be hanging in the Louvre if it weren't painted on a wall...

Exactly. Blasphemy is a part of French culture.

[falafel]

You think the French care about plausible deniability over this?

I think the IOC cares.